Interview 10
Transcript from interview with Dave, who I made contact with via the High Path estate residents association. The High Path estate is a Clarion-run estate in Merton. The interview took place via Zoom, at Dave’s preference. Text has been redacted in cases of personally identifying information (of the interviewee or others they know), irrelevance, and the interviewees asking for certain topics not to be recorded.
| Dave | Yeah, so couple of disclaimers. I am the chairperson for Straw Bale UK, which is the first straw bale builders association in the United Kingdom. We set up around 2015. I volunteered for that group, I was one of the founder members. And I joined that group, which is quite pertinent to this conversation, because the property that I lived in is an 11 story tower block, which is about to be destroyed because it’s part of the regeneration. It’s not fit for purpose. But when I was living with my family at the time we had quite severe bouts of damp and condensation. And I did a carpentry and joinery course around 2012, and on the course, I went to visit an exhibition called Eco Build, and at Eco Build I met this lady who I’d seen on television weeks beforehand called Barbara Jones. The television programme was called Grand Designs – you’ve probably heard of it. And she was demonstrating how to build with straw – she built a straw bale house in Grand Designs and there she was right in front of me in 3D at this exhibition, demonstrating how to work with straw and the beauty or the benefits of building with low carbon materials, for straw is a low carbon material, is the way vapour disperses itself through the material. So it also has wonderful thermal benefits as well. So in the warm climates that we’re having time to go at the moment, right, in London, you would be cooler living in a natural house, natural in their low carbon natural material. And in the winter you’d be warmer. |
| Me | Yeah, it’s interesting. One of my flatmates is doing architecture qualification Masters, and he did a big project on, kind of similar to this, using hemp as a building material. Okay. Um, and like hemp. Yeah. For similar reasons. Like low-carbon, natural building material. |
| Dave | Exactly the same. Exactly the same. So I personally advocate working with low carbon materials. So the reason, or the purpose, of me giving you that disclaimer is because at the time when I was living in that property – I say, living in it, I’ve now moved a new build right on the estate, literally two weeks ago, and we’ll probably go into that in a second – but at the time when I was living in that property, I was a fitness trainer, an elite fitness trainer for Virgin Active. But many years of fitness training and sports, my speciality was sports – I was a 200 metre sprinter, trained with some of the best international athletes in the world. And I also, when I finished that, I went into music, as a buyer for one of the top independent jazz and funk specialists in the country. But I threw all of that to one side because everything that was happening in my life, in my home, my neighbour’s homes was becoming very destructive, you know, it affects me quite a bit. I could see people who were coming up to me because we resurrected the residence association, which is how you’ve come to connect with me. And we realised when people were coming to us that a lot of works that were promised by the housing association weren’t being delivered. So families living in overcrowded homes were finding that despite the fact that they were informing the housing association what was happening, they just weren’t being carried out, you know, for one reason or another. And it tended to be for a negative reason, not for a positive one. As I’m sure you probably would’ve found out in your ventures, in your works. Yeah, so there you go. That’s my disclaimer, and I now work for –so as I said, you know, music and sports gone out the window now my own physical state of health is forget about that. I couldn’t run for the bus if you asked me to, and these days I’m still involved in DJing, you know, from here, there and everywhere. But now I’m very much involved in the sustainable building industry or sector. So I now work as communications and events manager for the Sustainable Traditional Building Alliance. And we specialise in traditional heritage buildings. So pre 1919. So there you go. |
| Me | That’s really interesting. And now I wanna ask you just like more stuff about your life. Thank you for that. What I’ve been doing, I’ve been starting these interviews with most people I’ve interviewed is starting with just asking you more general questions about where you were living. Like, if you could tell me more information about who you were living with, what was the size of the property, where was it? That sort of thing. Some of that would probably be stuff you’ve already covered, but that sort of information is kind of like a useful frame. So you were living there until two weeks ago, did you say? |
| Dave | The present? Yeah. Yeah. So that tower block I was referring to literally, it’s right next door to where I am at the moment. So to give you a bit of context, if you like, if that helps, I dunno if that will help or not. The housing association – the housing association everybody has heard about by now – bought or acquired the stock – most of the social housing stock – from Merton Council. Yes. Um, I think that was around 2008, 2009, I can’t remember approximately. I can give you a timeline if I can send you off that stuff. But right now I can’t remember precisely. And this was this mainly because the Council, like many other councils in the country just couldn’t keep up with the amount of the work that needed to be carried out. And the housing association, at the time they were called Circle, they’ve changed their names quite a few times over the years, or maybe they were called Merton Priory. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter. The facts of the matter is, they acquired the stock and they did it on the promise to the residents that they would refurbish their homes. Yeah? So people who were living in, you know, homes that were full of damp and condensation, they were going to go in and patch them up, do what needs to be done. And they carried out a consultation and some of the residents in the first round, if my memory serves me well, didn’t wanna do it. I think they were a bit dubious. And then they had another round of voting and we agreed. I myself personally agreed because, you know, I could see what was going on, where I thought, right, okay, this could win, we could win, we’d benefit from this. And then I would say the first year or two things were okay. And then what happened after the next few years, so 2010, 2011, we just didn’t move anywhere from where we were. So if you like, the initial start was full of roses and chocolates and champagne, and thereafter, you know, people just found that calls to their call centre weren’t being sufficiently logged or suitably logged. Yes. So they had a problem with their, with their call centre effectively. You know, calls were made out by residents, nobody would come, you’d then call again, to inform them about your leak, for example. And there’d be no record of your call. Then what happened, is this escalated to the point that people were getting really, really fed up with it. And in this particular area – so I live in the Abbey Ward with Merton Abbey, part of Merton Council. And it’s right in the heart of Merton – 15 minutes away is Wimbledon, where all the Wimbledon tennis and all of that kind of stuff takes place. So we are classed as, we’re called south Merton. And, uh, it’s a very different kettle of fish to where Wimbledon tennis takes place. And what happened thereafter, is that we found out the Councillors in this ward, the three of them, so Abby Jones, Katie Levine, Andrew Judge, collectively decided to inspect what was going on with the Council, with the housing association. And this was also because at the time there was a – a whistleblower came forward from the housing association and they outlined that, you know, things just weren’t happening properly. So both of those two things came together and, thereafter that we found – to say it was fraudulent, you know, I’m probably incriminating myself or litigating myself. I don’t, I can’t really say that that was the case, but there were financial discrepancies from the housing association with the contractors that they were using. So procurement process was most definitely at fault. Then they decided… Right. Okay. Whilst this is all ongoing… So you can imagine, you know, as a resident, okay, I might be very much involved in it, but as a resident, if you’re living on this estate, you’re kind of confused as to what’s happening, as to the state of play. And they then decided, okay, this has gone too far now, we need to have a regeneration. They felt, the housing association felt there’s too much wrong on the estate to rectify just by simply refurbishing the properties. Let’s just mow it all down and start again. I, for one agreed with that. Yeah. But there was a caveat, which is that number one residents needed to be involved. And number two, I preferred for, as I’ve stipulated at the beginning, low carbon materials to be involved in that. You know, I met with the director of regeneration several times and his team and the architects and, you know, really stipulated let’s do what we can. Even went to planning meetings at the Council to put forward our views, but they weren’t really taken on board. So then we had another series of consultations, which was even more, you know… So basically there was survey fatigue which was happening in this area. You know, you’ve been surveyed continually and even confusingly because at one point two very important surveys were delivered at the same time by the housing association and by the council to ask people if we wanted the area to be regenerated. One was asking one thing, one was asking the other. But if you looked between, if you looked at both of them, they were more or less saying the same thing. But people found it very confusing. We had, I think it was 54% of the residents on this estate agreed. There was 624 homes on the estate – 654, I beg your pardon – and 54% agreed to having a regeneration. So the housing association association went about, you know, getting to works with that, having workshops with the residents. And we are now in the, just about to start phase two. So I’m living in phase one right now. I moved in about two weeks ago. I was the last social tenant to move from my property. We have six other phases to go through. And that’s it. Some of which some of the phases will be only available to the – for buying. So, you can’t, if you’re social tenant, for example, move into one of those. But if there is one bonus from all of this it’s that all of the residents on the estate are not being decanted. So we’re not being lifted out here, moved to Birmingham or any, or Croydon, or wherever, anywhere else, whilst this is all going, we are living here on the estate. I mean it has its pluses and negatives. You know, the negatives are that you’re just surrounded by. Literally by noise. If we’d had this meeting maybe seven or eight months ago, I mean, you’d have to close the windows to try and be heard cause it would just be really incredibly noisy. So I moved from there as I said, two weeks ago. And previous to that, when I was living there with my family at the time, that is my wife, well ex-wife, and our four children in a two bedroom property. And the stipulation I have, and the reason why I very much am quite evangelical about low carbon materials is that in the property of that time – if that property was made of low material, so hemp, straw, lyme, clay, things like that, we wouldn’t have had the kinda condensation that we had. 100%. And that’s it. That’s it essentially, that’s where we are. |
| Me | Thank you. That is loads of information. So I have a few questions, and some of them are more just clarifications and some maybe will go a bit further. One was just, you said just now that, you were the last social tenant to move into the new builds during this phase one. When you say last social tenant, are there other people, so like leaseholders, still on the estate? |
| Dave | Yeah. Yeah. |
| Me | Are they going to be moved as part of phase one, or is that being dealt with kind of different phase? |
| Dave | No, they have the option to do that. If they want to. Some people haven’t, some people on the estate… So just to be clear, once the housing association acquired the right to regenerate the estate, everybody was then informed of the residents’ offer. So the social tenants were given one document and lease holders were given another, well, it was all bound in the same document, but you had two different offers if you like. And for some leaseholders, they just didn’t feel it was fair. The deal that they were offered. They sold up and left, um, and others have opted to stay. |
| Me | Okay. Thank you. One of the other things I wanted to ask was, you say, so you were talking about how you were in favour of the regeneration and voted for it during the consultation. As it’s kind of starting now, are you still – do you still think that’s been a good process? |
| Dave | So just to be clear, are you asking, am I still in favour of it overall? |
| Me | I guess, yeah, but obviously I understand that could be complicated. |
| Dave | I don’t wanna put words in your mouth, but you know, we’re recorded, so I’ve gotta be careful as to what it is I say. It’s really, really, I mean, that’s quite a content question, if I’m honest with you. I’m in favour of it, but not on the way it’s being delivered is the honest answer. You know, and the reason why I’m in favour of it is because it allows our families who are living in overcrowded properties to move into new properties that are suitable for their needs. So I know that on this estate, that are lots of families who are living in overcrowded properties and, given what I said to you earlier about my own context, you know, I know what that’s like, and I wouldn’t want for them to stay in the positions that they’re right now. Because the only options that, you know, the only options that are open to them is that, if the government, for example, or maybe even if the housing association, were to put in a massive amount of funding into it, then you could possibly retrofit the properties. I dunno if you know much about retrofitting at all, retrofitting the properties suitably, you know. You know, one of the mistakes we made – and I’m just gonna put this into context for when I say retrofit, cause it’s quite – the words you use are very… What I’ve come to realise the words you use in all of this, all of this are so very important. Your requests, your demands to either the housing association, the Council, or the Member of Parliament. They take your words literally. Right? And if you aren’t very clear and transparent about what it is that you need and what you want, then your demands can be twisted. So for example, one of the words that we were using quite frequently when the option to regenerate these estate, back in the day, was yes, we wanted to regenerate, we want you to refurbish as part of the regeneration. Refurbishment is really quite tokenistic gesture. It doesn’t do much in the way of sorting out the fabric of a building. Retrofitting, however, is a very different kettle of fish. Retrofitting effectively, what it means is replacing either the inner wall insulation or the external wall insulation. Or if you’re living in a terraced house, as some people on this estate do, installing the right type of roof installation. So we went about it – and this is for our own, our own naivety as residents – we went about it asking the wrong kind thing. The other thing was ensuring that your footprint is the same in the in the regeneration.So there are – in fact, it goes the same for all of us, but I think it’s more so for the leaseholders and freeholders where this refers to – is that the size of their property, because they are owners, right, they would like for that size to be the same when they go to a new build. So what we used to say is ‘like for like,’ we want – if you’re going to regenerate the sustain, we’re going to ask for ‘like for like.’ And we kept saying it. We kept saying it, that phrase ‘like for like.’ And that didn’t do as much in the way favours, because, um, the way the housing association got around that was by saying that we are going to deliver, and this is really important, we are going the new homes that are bigger than the London Plan. And the London plan is what Sadiq is offering for regeneration. Astonishingly or unsurprisingly, the London Plan buildings or requirements, the measurements are smaller than what we have presently. So, you know, people have sat there nodding their heads, like, you know, those dogs at the back of a car going, oh, London Plan, they’re gonna go bigger than that, right? But then when you look at the London plan, measure measurements, you go, hang on a minute. That’s not the same. So what they’re doing on this estate is practically quadrupling the size. We’re gonna have 2,800 homes, at the end of it all. By the end of 2038, we’ll have 2800 homes. And if you’re gonna that, if you’re gonna, you can imagine the homes gonna be smaller. |
| Me | Is that on the same land area as well? |
| Dave | It’s same footprint. The same footprint. And the the reason why they’re going to do that is because their financial model dictates that they have to sell homes in order for them to break even, or make a profit because they can’t do it any other way. |
| Me | And so on in 2038, will it be either socially rented homes or like homes to buy from Clarion? Or is there gonna be any, I can’t remember the phrase, build to let rental properties – private rental properties – as well? |
| Dave | Yeah, no, there won’t be any, I don’t think it would be… There’d be a private tenure. So there are, so there are 1, 2, 3, 4 phases, which would be for private tenures. And that would be for Clarion’s disposal as to how they deal with that. So they’ll either sell it to the outside market or I think they might rent it at market value, market price, because that’s what everybody is making money out of, if you’re a landlord. |
| Me | Thank you. That is really helpful. And I’m sorry that the question ended up being quite contentious. There was another question I had about something you said. So you’re talking about when Circle acquired these properties from Merton Council, and then it becomes Clarion at some point. Do you remember when that was? Cause I was wondering as well, you talked about how the first two years seemed great. Was there any change that coincided with it being subsumed into Clarion? Or was that more a rebrand rather than a merger? |
| Dave | So, um, let me think. In 2010, right, in 2010 they were called Merton Priory. They then put forward their pitch to the Council, and the Council then delivered that – or Merton Priory then delivered that pitch to us as residents. And in 2014 Circle signed up to – because their repairs and maintenance were so bad – they’ve signed up to this promise called the 10 commitments, which basically amounted to them saying, we’re gonna promise to do this, we’re gonna promise to do that. I mean, they haven’t really done it, but that’s where they were. Around 2015 there was a legal action. That’s what I referred to much earlier. And in 2015, April, the overall management company called Circle Anglia were downgraded to G3 for chronic problems to its emergency repairs. Which left some vulnerable tenants with exceptionally poor service. I’m gonna send you some links and stuff, so you’d be able to understand it then. I would say around 2015, 2016 is when they merged with another housing association called Affinity Suffolk and became Clarion. The idea behind that, you know, if we’re gonna be cynical about it is fundamentally to join both amounts of housing stock, which would enable them to go to banks and lenders to get more money to do this, that and the other. That’s what it amounted to. Because if you want my honest frank opinion, and the information is there, I attended, um, a scrutiny panel meeting at Merton Council whereby Affinity Suffolk were invited to put forward their position about this merger. And at the time – I was sat in the gallery – I was allowed to put forward a question as the chairperson for the Resident’s Association. And I asked, why are Affinity Suffolk merging with Circle when Affinity Suffolk’s performances on repairs and maintenance is worse? Yeah. They were very open to admitting that their repairs and maintenance service was worse, which really, if I’m honest and frank with you just displayed the really brazen act of just joining together purely because it was an option for them, an easy option for them, to go to banks and lenders and say, look, instead of having 200 homes, we’ve now got 400 because we’ve merged with another housing association. And that is what a lot of housing associations at the time were doing. It wasn’t just Cirlce or doing that just to be clear. And the other thing, a disclaimer if you like, is I was actually on Circle’s board as a resident representative. I got kicked off. Not just because I was a troublemaker but because I was in rent arrears, and one of the stipulations, was if that you were in rent arrears, you can’t be on their board. So I was privy to a lot of information. You know, the stuff that I know is very much open. |
| Me | I feel like I was semi-familiar with – I think particularly, cause obviously there’s been a lot of stuff about Eastfields Estate, which were acquired in the same large scale voluntary transfer. And also by Clarion from Merton. But it’s sometimes really hard to kind of follow that information, of what company is what, especially cause they will have these like kind of abstractly sounding names that could be anywhere or anything. |
| Dave | Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, if you were – and I hate to use this expression – but if you were just a humble resident, right, you’d be really confused as to who it was that you were paying your rent to. You know, they’ve changed their names four times. So they’ve gone from Circle to Merton Priory, to um, Circle Affinity was the overriding group, and then went to, um… What did I say? Circle, Merchant Priory… I’m even confused now as to what it is, as to what it was at the time. But yeah, they changed their name. They changed their name and their brand three times and astonishingly, or not as the case may be, some residents, and I’m talking about the elderly ones and the vulnerable ones particularly, still feel or felt that they were paying their rent to Merton Council, not to the housing association. So in a lot of instances, the ones ought to be made accountable, so the housing association, weren’t. Because depending on the time of the year or whenever there was a local election of general election, you know, the Councillors would pick up on cases, right, if we could call it that, for residents and because a resident is dealing with that Councillor directly, they would be under the impression that the Council were dealing with it as opposed to the housing association. So there was so much confusion. So much confusion for people. |
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| Me | Yeah. So we were just talking about all these name changes and brand changes. And do you think, say like some of this confusion about who was responsible or who was the landlord or where to complain, also fed into some of the issues around maintenance? |
| Dave | I’m gonna copy and paste some of this stuff, which I think may be useful for you. Or maybe actually I’ll send it, I think just in case you lose the chat. What was the question you asked me? |
| Me | It was whether these name and brand changes, and the confusion for some residents about who was accountable, who they were paying rent to, whether you think that fed into some of the maintenance and repairs issues. |
| Dave | Very much so. Very much so. I dunno if you are aware the expression to the expression TUPE? It’s transfer – or I dunno what it, I can’t remember what it stands for, you’d have to look it up. But basically it’s essentially, it’s a transfer of public sector groups to another, right. And so what happened when Merton transferred their stock to Circle, it acquired the people who are working for Merton Council housing. So in essence the same, I wanna swear, but the same idiots who were working at Merton Council went over to Circle, and we were still dealing with the same non-entities who were working before. The same people who are incompetent were delivering on, on that. Do you understand what I’m saying? And they then went through their procurement process to get in their contractors, the contractors who were an incapable bunch of idiots, they themselves, when they were found guilty, if you like, and culpable and accountable for the mistakes they were delivering on repairs and maintenance – the company would fold, but then those people would be transferred over to another company. And still be employed by Circle and it’s still going on to this day. And the stuff that I sent to you by email, you’ll see a name, an organisation called KeepMoat, and KeepMoat are a very popular organisation who deliver repairs and maintenance on behalf of housing associations and councils. And despite the fact that they messed up here, they then fold, and you know, the general public will be thinking, oh, there’s a new organisation in town, they are gonna… and then you see these people turning up on your doorstep, and be like hang on a minute, you’re just wearing a different sweatshirt. You’re the same bloke who was here before. So for residents in the main, what you found it was the same level of incompetence that’s happened before. And I know this because I also sat, as well as their Board, there was a group repairs and maintenance group for Circle, which allowed residents points of contact. We had monthly meetings or quarterly meetings to hold them to account on their KPIs. But I was chairing that, you know, it was just comical, the kind of things that you could see from these contractors that were happening, you know. They were going to people’s homes either late or on time and not having a clue as to what the work it was that they had to do. So they would have the job description on their computer readout, and it wouldn’t be a full description, you know, it’d be missing crucial element. Like for example, I dunno, there’s a leak coming from the roof of a family’s home, that person lives on the top floor of a three story complex. And the builder or the contractor would go there and not be told that the guttering isn’t in place or the guttering needs working on too. So they’d be going there thinking that I’m just gonna to replaster something, not aware of the fact that there are other outstanding issues related to that too. So it was that kinda thing just made us think, well, okay, you guys still dunno what you’re doing and it’s still going on to this day. These kind things still, you know, I’ve had two messages over the past two days from residents who have told me this stuff going on in their block, which they’re still outstanding. And despite the fact that they’ve been, you know, relaying this onto the housing association it’s not been dealt with. |
| Me | And so you mentioned before you used to be a sports trainer, and then you worked in music, I think you kind of alluded that with everything that was happening around you kind of gave that up. Was that related then to your housing conditions? Was there a moment where you were like, I wanna be more involved in like all these different boards or resident groups? |
| Dave | Very much so. Yeah, it was,you know, the stuff I was going through and people were telling me they were going through the same thing – at that point I was divorced. So you know, single living on my own, and I could have just gone travelling around the world if I wanted to. Or just working nine to five and coming home, watching EastEnders, Coronation Street, and not giving a toss, if I’m frank, about any other person’s issue. But it is heartbreaking and it ruins families. You can see that this kind of stuff, the stresses it causes people, families I know, who are, who are going through this kinda stuff. It’s horrible. If you are family, if you are four person family – so mother and father and two kids – and you’re living in a one bedroom property and that one bedroom property has got a leak coming through, which is not being sorted out. Can you imagine your kind of stress that’s causing you as a couple and what it does to your children? You know, if you’ve got young teenagers, they’re embarrassed to bring their friends around to their house. Because they’ve got nowhere to hang out, they’ve got nowhere to play, you know, and the families are
embarrassed to invite their friends or families. And I know this for a fact, because people tell me this, they say, look, this home is horrible. We can’t invite people round. So it means you become isolated and you become insular. You know, your problems become far more dynamic than they were initially. And life is just one pain in the neck after another. And it’s predominantly because of the… I would use the word deception that the housing association and the council cause they colluded in this, right? I’m not gonna blame just the housing association, the Council are very much to blame without this too, and also the Government. So those three parties were colluded in this, you know. Our local MP is a Conservative Member of Parliament, and he has been in place ever since the stock transfer happened. And he hasn’t really – in fact I know – he hasn’t really dealt with it in the matter that we would like, because he knows it’s so complicated. They’ve become an organisation that is too big to fail. And is not a Minister of a department, so he doesn’t sit in any specific department per se, so he doesn’t have significant amount of power to deal with these things. So in terms of being an advocate, yeah, he will put for the motion in the House of Commons, but it does next to nothing. It does next to nothing in terms of dealing with the overall problems that we have. And the Government, if we’re gonna get politics now, the Government wanna wipe their hands with it, because they feel it will cost, um, too much money for them to deal with. So they’d rather give it to the housing association who can profit from it, deal with it, and then put the blame on them when things don’t go right. |
| Me | Yeah, no for sure. Nearly very single person I’ve interviewed or like talked to has said exactly the same thing about inviting people over, or just like not wanting to be in the house yourself. It is probably the most consistent thing that anyone I’ve spoken to said, if you see what I mean. So, how long would you say your flat had a problem with damp, or with maintenance issues? How many years? |
| Dave | So I moved into my property around as a single parent. Okay. In 1999. And I got married 2000, and then we we had children there. I would say probably it didn’t take more than a year for those problems, few months, actually, for those problems to escalate, you know? Because I was living there initially with my son, so there weren’t many issues, but because there were so many of us living in the property, a number of factors contributed towards that. So laundry. One of the reasons why people have damp and condensation in their properties is because, it’s to do with the windows, to do with the density or the type of materials, the walls. But if you are, for example, you are doing your laundry at home, and you don’t have a dryer, then that means, you know, you’re circulating hot air moisture into the air. And that escalated because at the time it was just the four of us, my wife, my son, her son, but then we had two children. So there were six of us. Yeah, six people living in a two bedroom property. So if you’re washing and cleaning, and as I was doing a lot of fitness training, you know, a lot of training gear and all that, and the boys are doing those sports and all that kind stuff, you know, that, that just doesn’t… It becomes more problematic. Does that make sense? |
| Me | No, it does make sense. And going back to something you said at the start, was there a kind of active residence association before, or did it kind of form as a result of these issues? |
| Dave | Yes, it did. Yeah, it did. So before we formed as a group, there were previous incarnations of it, if you like, but they weren’t, generally speak, dealing with the issue. And it’s as difficult now, if I’m honest with you, youknow, we’ve had Covid, so getting things resolved as a committee just has been a bit difficult, you know. There’s – the level of apathy on the estate is very, very high, very high. And that is the case of all housing estates across the UK. So, we would leaflet all of the properties on the estate for meetings, and have our meetings on a monthly basis, and find that it would be the same people that would come to the meetings. And it would probably be 10, 15 people at most by the turn up. So despite the fact that somebody may be undergoing very serious issues which are influencing their mental health and wellbeing, they’re unprepared to come out, to work as one collected unit to deal with it. Because they’re just so disheartened and so downtrodden, and they just live with it, you know, they live with it and it’s a real sad state of affairs, it really is. Because there are people on this estate, who are just sitting with it, you know, and you can knock on their door and you can hear them approach the door, but they won’t answer it. And won’t talk to you. They just go, they’ve shuffled back into their room and carry on watching, telly, you know. And, uh, you know, what happened on Eastfields, I would say that it’s not different to any other housing estate, or many other housing estates in, the UK. Because we were doing the same thing as they were. Well as Kwajo was doing, you know, so I’m in touch with I’m in touch on a daily basis with Eastfields and Ravensbry, who are the other two estates, as to what’s happening on their sites, if you like. And yeah, people are really upset about what’s happening. They don’t like it at all. They feel they’re not being listened to by anyone. |
| Me | There was something I was gonna ask, which maybe is a good point to do now, because you just brought up Eastfields. Cause obviously Eastfields got a lot of news coverage and I suppose public awareness or public attention – on the estate, and more broadly, on Clarion as a housing provider. Do you feel that any of that news attention helped change things in your situation, in High Path Estate? |
| Dave | Yeah. It’s difficult to quantify that because I think on the outside, a lot of people think because we’re being regenerated that we’re, you know, and everything is fine and there’s no issue whatsoever. You know, the news item that Eastfields put out there, if I’m honest with you didn’t really make much of a difference to what was happening to us in our particular case. What tends to happen with Clarion, or Circle or whoever it is that they’re called – we used to call them Circus, that’s how disparaging things are – what tends to happen with them. The moment they get a bit of bad news, they send out the fire brigade, right? Or a team of builders and their head surveyor to assess the situation, stick around for a few months and then they go, so they would just firefight the things that are happening and really rising in terms of public attention. What’s happening on Eastfields at the moment. I mean, it’s unfortunate, it’s really unfortunate what’s happening to them, but as the estate that has been cited for regeneration, that particular problem is gonna go away. And everybody will forget about it. I think what ought to be happening is that work needs to be put in place on all of the housing estates around the country. You know, basically a survey, the government ought to be undertaking a survey as to what it is that people feel is happening on their estates, pesently right now, this moment in time. And I’m referring to repairs and maintenance antisocial behaviour or anything else like that, just repairs and maintenance. Because I think what you’ll find is that they would relay the same story as us, as us and as Eastfields and as Ravensby have done. They wouldn’t say anything different from, if I’m frank with you, that there is a very poor line of communication between them and the landlord, and things just aren’t being delivered in the timeline that they say they ought. So, you know, Clarion are very good when it comes to saying, oh yes, you know, we had 100 calls on Monday and we responded to 99% of them. You know, what’s the response? A response is picking up call, you know, that’s a response. And so people go, oh look, 99% of them. That means they must do really well. No, I wanna see, you know, the outputs. That’s what I wanna see. And I think if they’re delivering on that on a consistent basis, then that works. The biggest problem we have in this country – and I’ll give you my flag in the ground moment – the biggest problem we have in the country regarding this is that we have got a shortfall of skills. There weren’t enough skilled people to deliver this kind of work. And I know this because of the nature of what I do in my present job. You know, I’m not just saying it just cause I read something in the newspaper. I notice the data is there, the facts are there, there arent’t enough skilled people to do the kind of work that needs to be done on the homes in this country. In this country, we have got the worst set of housing in Europe, in this country, the worst set. And that’s not a claim you wanna be proud of if you are the Government in power, you know, you wanna be saying, hang on a minute, that’s not ok. We’re also one of the richest economies in the world, so why is it the two aren’t going together? There’s something amiss. There’s something wrong. And it really stems the problem stems from, again, I don’t into fall into politics, but you know, the Government really needs to look at what their priorities are, at the moment. At the moment they’ve got to prioritise that, you know, I appreciate NHS needs a lot of assistance, but, um, the NHS problems sometimes, in some cases, stems from housing. You know, if a person is living in a home that has damp and condensation and they’re breathing in the mould from the wall, they then become ill, which means they then go to the NHS. If they’re suffering from mental health issues, because they can’t get through to their Councillor, because of the damp and condensation in their homes, they then go to the NHS, you know. So the NHS’s problems would probably be halved if we sort out the housing – simple as that. And the reason why this country does not wanna sort out the housing is because it’s a different mindset. They’ve got to change their mindset. So instead of building homes in concrete, you build with low carbon, but they won’t build with low carbon because the biggest donors for the party in power come from the construction sector and they want for their type of construction to continue. It’s a conversation that has been happening for some time. And it’s now time to, to change and deliver something. |
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| Dave | It’s really sad, isn’t it, to think this is all happening right, under your feet, right in front of you, you know? Um, and I feel really, really sad for a lot of people who just can’t seem to get it. So when it comes to general election, they go to vote for what’s name thinking, oh right, he’s gonna make our lives better. Not realising hang on a minute, he’s just gonna screw you over. They just can’t see it, you know, they can’t. And it’s coming around to hit people now because it’s affecting them – if you ever, ever wanna affect somebody, or hurt someone, pick them in their pocket, in the wallet, in their bank account, you know, it’s not slapping them in the face or pushing down a flight stairs, it’s in their pocket. And a lot of people now are being hit in the pocket and they’re seeing what’s what, you know, because of the energy crisis they’re seeing what’s happening right before them. And if this was put to the powers that be at a very high level, I genuinely believe that people would jump on board having low carbon materials as a way to live, as opposed to living what life we’re living at the moment. You know, right now, um, on these new builds, you know, I did ask for them to build up with certain materials. I feel, in 50 years time, we will have the same problems that we had in the old towers that we were living in before. So this is a seven tower building that I’m living in now. The one I lived in before was 11 stories. And I’m not entirely convinced right now, you know, that these homes will perform at a better rate than the ones that we are living in. Seriously. |
| Me | And is that purely on basis of like the design and material use or is any of that also tied up in the fact it’s been managed by the same people with the same complaints and maintenance procedures? |
| Dave | It’s both. Sadly. They conflate. So it is the type of materials and it is the people, same type of people I should say, who are delivering on this now. |
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| Me | I’ve come, I think, to the end of the stuff I was gonna ask you. Normally I finish by asking the person, if there’s anything else they want to add or bring up. Is there anything else you would like to add? If so, I’ll start a new call. |
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| Dave | Um, I dunno what I was gonna say. So what I was gonna say was that, yeah, it’s the chicken and egg situation, you know, that we find ourselves in. Okay. The powers that be, and let’s face it, okay, people have the power, they can decide what they wanna do, but given the way we live in this kind democracy, people seem to feel it’s the government who should do that. Right. And I have felt for some time, and this is mainly because of my involvement in all of this, but the way forward to deliver the kind of phones that people – I’m talking about, social rented homes – that people want, it needs to be done through a community led scheme. And what that amounts to essentially is the community come together, and decide how they want to design the home. The price they want for those homes to be built at. So essentially what it means is that they work with the architects, they work with the builders, they work with the local authority to deliver this. Now I know, and I don’t – I would say, don’t note this, this is private. |
| Me | REDACTED |
| Dave | And if you look on the Twitter feed for High Path, there are two or three things I really want to engage with. It’s do do with the energy of the homes, and I’m talking about, you know, the kind of fabric of the home, and community organisation, you know, people working together. And I noted that in London, there was a group called RUSS Lewisham, and they stand for Rural Urban Synthesis Society and they are based in Lewisham and they are the top London organisation. It’s residents, they’ve got together and decided they’re gonna build their homes. What a beautiful way to go about living in your community. You know, now it doesn’t mean that they go in with a shovel or hammer and do the stuff. If you wanna do that and get involved in that respect, that’s fine. That’s up to. But you go about finding the funding. You go about doing all this, but you’re doing it with an authority that supports you. I was a member of that organisation – I stopped very recently because I was just doing too much – but I joined them in their quest. So I was the communications person for them. And I was checking out all this stuff on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram on their behalf. And you could see, and I was very jealous, really jealous. Cause I could see the relationship they had with their architects, the relationship they had with their builders, the Council, with the Councillors, the MP, all of those people who are integral, you know, working as one to deliver this project. And it’s now got to a point, they were given a million pounds by the mayor of London. To go about delivering this project, you know, but my local authority would never undertake this kind of thing because it’s a different political project, you know, they feel that right, okay, well it couldn’t be done or we dunno how to do this or whatever, but it just kind of, you know, once you get entrenched into it, it becomes really quite murky and messy and you. I put myself forward. People were saying to me, why didn’t you become a Councillor? I thought, right, put myself forward as a Councillor and the leader of the Council said to me, well you can’t, you haven’t been in the party for long enough, which was a load of rubbish. I thought you don’t want me, because you know what I’m like, that’s what it boiled down to. Other people were allowed in because they agreed with her form of politics. So I’ll start, I’ll go back to what I said right in the beginning, or near the beginning, is that it’s so political as to how things are being delivered and where they are and where they go, you know? And the homes that people need and want can be delivered in a very simple manner, in a simple way, but too many people wanna become the middleman. And it’s because of that, we pay the price. |
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| Dave | I mean, I see my role, you know, cause when people reach out to me, I don’t just wanna say, yeah, you know, the housing association were rubbish, the Council were rubbish, blah, blah, blah. I know why they were rubbish, but you know, I need to contextualise it and also give a positive outcome of what can be done, as opposed to just, you know, rubbishing them and putting them. Because it means, okay, you might not wanna factor this in your, in your work, in your studies, in your thesis, but there are alternative solutions to these problems. It’s not a case of saying, oh yeah, we want more money. The stuff is there. |
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