Interview 02
Transcript from interview with survey respondent, Milena. This interview took place at her flat on the Ferry Boat Lane estate, Haringey. Text has been redacted in cases of personally identifying information (of the interviewee or others they know), irrelevance, and the interviewees asking for certain topics not to be recorded.
| REDACTED | |
|---|---|
| Me | Maybe it’d be good to kind of start with some more like general questions. So how long have you lived here? You are a leaseholder here, with a friend, right? |
| Milena | Yes. Yeah, that’s right. We moved in December 2020. So still during lockdown. I don’t even know, but it was still like… and we spent Christmas here together because we couldn’t see our parents cause it was, you know, remember it was like… ? |
| Me | Yeah, it was the one they cancelled like two days before Christmas? |
| Milena | Yeah. So I’ve lived there since then. |
| Me | And had you been looking for a while over the pandemic type time or – |
| Milena | Um, we started looking – so I was basically had a bit of a rough last few years, where I was living in Bow for a long time. I was married before, living with my ex in Bow, and then I had a mental health issue and we broke up and then I lived with my parents for a year in Croydon, and they still lived there. And then I lived in – so that was for about 10 months – and then I lived in Honor Oak Park, for six months. So I moved into Honor Oak Park, maybe May? May 2020, and we started looking in August, and we found this immediately. We were like, this is good and it’s more affordable and it’s by the river. Because it’s on an ex council estate. So we were looking, we literally, I think it was the month of, you know, started looking in July and then found it, and we made an offer in August. And then we moved in, in December. So it was pretty quick and we were just like – cos my friend just mentioned it, I was like looking for studio places on my own, cause I owned a flat with my ex in Bow. And then yeah, um, when we, yeah, when he bought me out, I had a bit of money, but I couldn’t find anything for like living on my own. It was impossible. And even like the smallest places. So it’s like really against you, if you are single. Like the housing market, I was like, I’m not gonna be with someone just because… And then my friend just mentioned, we were just in a park and she was like, why don’t we get somewhere together? And I was like, that’s not a bad idea. And then we – and then there was also the, you know, the – we didn’t have to pay stamp duty. Then there was a big, uh, rush. But it was, it was good because it would’ve been very, yeah. So that’s the story. It’s kind of been a bit of a… But I mean, I’m very lucky to live here. I do really like, even though there’s damp issues, it’s still, it’s still…. Yeah. It was good for my mental health basically. I could go into it, I don’t know if you want to talk about mental health, I’m quite open to talk about it, but I also realise that I overshare sometimes. |
| Me | No, it’s completely up to you on that. It’s interesting the situation with you and your friend. Cause obviously I feel like that’s becoming more of a common thing to do as well. it’s just so hard, I guess like both in terms of like say buying somewhere, but also in terms of like renting. |
| Milena | Yeah, I think I know a couple of people that do that. Yeah. So it’s possible. But like living on your own. I feel like, yeah, it’s difficult if you’re in London to do that. |
| Me | And then I guess if you moved in, December, you’re often moving into a house where like, if it has any sort of damn problem, right, it will probably be towards its peak. So like, was that kind of the case when you moved in or did it get triggered by something? |
| Milena | The damp came, it started coming, kind of January, I’d say? January, February. I remember documenting it and being like, right. I was like, joking, I was like rising damp, and I was like posting it on Instagram, like Instagram stories. Like, oh, look at this. And I, yeah. So I do remember that. But yeah, there wasn’t a problem when we first moved in. So I don’t know. Maybe I’m not learning how to put the heating on properly. And that could be part of the problem. And my room was very cold and yeah. |
| Me | Was it something that kind of, started emerging, starting in like January, February was there say like a leak or like a heavy spell of like rain and then it was an issue? Like, was it more gradual, or something you could pinpoint? |
| Milena | It was, it was gradual. It was gradual. But I did suddenly notice because I painted my room in January and then I think it was like a month after then that I started noticing like, oh, this is not good. I think it was a creeping thing though. I don’t know. I can’t remember if it was to do with rain, I don’t think so. But I was wondering cos when we - this sounds really ditzy – but when we moved in, like we got this heating thermostat. We dunno how the hell – it’s like one of those things when… Yeah, we dunno how to, so we asked the previous owners like how do we work this? Because we wanna turn down the heating or like, I don’t know, control it centrally. So now we’ve just been like putting it right. We dunno how to type, put it on a timer or anything like that. And we need to ask – even the boiler person didn’t know. So it’s kind of these, one of these really annoying things. It’s just really like mystifying. And so we’ve just been keeping it low. So cause we don’t wanna keep it, because we can’t put the timer on all night, I mean timers it’s on certain times of the night, I’m just sleeping in the cold that during the night when I should probably have the heating on. But we just didn’t – cause it’s so expensive to have it on all night and we don’t wanna, so we still haven’t worked out properly how to do that, but I probably should. And I don’t know if I ever asked actually the previous owners, if they had issues with damp, or whether they actually properly put the heating on and that’s why they didn’t have issues. So it’s probably my fault with not working out how to decipher the heating. |
| Me | And so is it mainly a problem in your bedroom and not your flatmate’s bedroom? |
| Milena | Yes. |
| Me | And did I remember you saying when I first got here, that you were above the garage? |
| Milena | Yeah. |
| Me | Is that a garage you have access to, or is it someone else’s? |
| Milena | No. Okay. So there’s like a waiting list with garages. It’s not necessary that the garage that you have, it’s like next to your house. It’s just, I think you apply for it the same way with like cycling – there’s like a cycling storage thing as well. People apply for that too. It could have something where like, there’s something in the garage causing it. I could tell you all about, like trying to get the council to fix – oh, did you know there’s a leak? I didn’t show you this, but that’s not damp. That’s a leak. But that’s in the kitchen. There’s a massive problem with the pointing or… that’s why we have scaffolding. I didn’t even know. My dad is explaining cause he’s architect, but he was explaining to me what it was. I still didn’t quite understand, but there was like an issue with the balcony upstairs or like a leak, but that’s, I guess that’s not damp. But it was still, like, I just, I haven’t even bothered with my room because I’m just, that’s like more of a priority. Cause the ceiling’s literally caved in. Not like completely as a whole, but you know, it’s crumbling and I just haven’t even bothered with the Council, cause I’m just, it’s taking us a year to, and it’s still not sorted just because there’s been a backlog. But they’ve had, this is the problem with, I mean, you probably agree, outsourcing everything. It’s like, the different contractors don’t talk to each other. We get asked the same question by different people. And it’s like, this isn’t efficient, like at all, to have all this outsourcing. The issue I had was like, I don’t mind if there’s a delay, but just tell me, just tell me. There’s… the communication is horrendous, like with these kind of things. So I have no hope with the, I mean, I haven’t even bothered with a damp in my room. But it’s just like, when you feel like… It’s like a… I dunno if it is the right book, but I haven’t read it, but The Trail. Is that, is that, is that what it’s about? Like, you get lost in bureaucracy and you’re like, I’m gonna, no, one’s listening to you. |
| Me | I’m not read it either! Like, I’m always like, oh this is kafkaesque, but I don’t know if that’s the book that – |
| Milena | There’s something about, like, he doesn’t know who’s accusing him of this crime he’s committed. And it’s all lost. Like, and you don’t know who to talk to and you’re lost in bureaucracy. There’s no, like everything’s very faceless. Like Ruth Gordon, the Councillor. She’s pretty good at chasing, but there’s only so much she can do. So I probably should read that book, but I feel like it’s about that. And I just like, who do I talk to? And this guy would just say, we we’ll get back to you ASAP. And then you just, yeah. |
| Me | So as, yeah, as the lease holder in a flat where the Council’s a free holder, right? Who do you contact? Is it done through Homes for Haringey or is it something else? |
| Milena | Homes for Haringey, but it’s changing. Cause they’re insourcing it. They said it’s like an ‘at arms length organisation.’ Which I never heard of before. But it’s that they wanna actually bring into the council. So yeah, I don’t. Yeah. Which is again, really confusing that it’s an at arms length organisation. |
| Me | Yeah, I feel like it does make it confusing. Cause it’s like, is this the Council? Is it not the Council? |
| Milena | I guess they’re less accountable. Yeah. It’s like… I feel, I don’t actually know, but I’m guessing they have less accountability if they’re at arms length. I don’t know. I probably should research that, but everything just seems majorly complicated. I mean, the fact that there will be reports done, and then they’ll ask me the same question. Like, haven’t you read the report? Like, surely that is something that you should relay to each other. |
| Me | And so how many times, like, so say with the issue in your kitchen, like long would you say the process is to say, get someone to come over and like look at or get some work done? |
| Milena | Oh, probably they started looking in November. We were complaining since March. I don’t know. |
| Me | November of last year? |
| Milena | Yeah. |
| Me | Wow, so that’s – |
| Milena | Months and months, like maybe nine months. So it’s just like, we just, just, if we just had communication to say we’re poorly resourced, you can’t do this right now, it will take this long. I would be fine with that. It’s just the fact that it’s so faceless and there’s no communication with anyone and you feel like you’re screaming into a void. You’re like, and again, like it’s not a majorly – I had basically, it was quite stressful. We were kind of using the mental health card, which is not completely crazy. But basically I had, when I broke up with my husband, I had, this was 2019, I had psychosis and I had what was called a manic episode. Anyway, so that was the first time, but then I got it again, cause I never had any mental issues before. And then I got it again at the beginning of last year. And this was like very stressful at the time being like, I remember being – cause you are very paranoid, you’re very delusional, you’re kind of suspicious of a lot of things. So dealing with these people was just like, really like what the hell. And so my care coordinator was just like, you should probably say that this is affecting your health and like, you can’t help, but still it’s like, I don’t know. |
| Me | And did you feel like it was affecting your mental health? |
| Milena | Sorry, that probably sounds really wrong, but you just like – Maria was my care coordinator at the NHS was saying that I should mention that. And it’s not, that sounds like it was like a conniving thing, but I was also like, it has, but I almost saw that as like, you should mention that as well. But I think I was just like, oh, it’s just another thing. Background stress. But it’s just another thing to sort out. And there were so many other things that I kind of like… But the point is that, yeah, you shouldn’t have to worry about those things. But again, it’s like not a major issue. Like I live in fairly comfortable accommodation. It’s not… But I remember just getting lost in all these emails and just being like, what the hell is going on. But we did mention it. |
| Me | Do you feel like, compared to say like a council tenant on the estate, do you feel like from your perspective, the Council tends to act slower or priority? |
| Milena | It’s hard to know because I haven’t got really a comparison or like, I don’t know who’s next door. But basically, my dad’s came here once and I cut his hair on the balcony and some hair drifted over the balcony next door, apparently, but we cleaned it all up. Anyway, we got a letter in the post from the council. Saying that next door were complaining about the fact that some hair had wafted over to their balcony. And like, you’ve literally, at lightning speed, sent this letter about a little bit of hair, which I don’t think even… And it was just, you know what I mean? It was like, I can’t believe this is real. They were complaining! |
| Me | Sorry, I– |
| Milena | It’s funny! It is funny! It is hilarious. |
| Me | It’s like bizarre, right? |
| Milena | It’s like, it’s, I’m like, I’m like we literally got – our wall is, and our ceiling is, and you are like prioritising this? They moved really quick. The letter. I dunno if I’ve still got it, but it was quite long and I just was like… |
| Me | And what were their kind of grounds in the letter? Like, was it a littering thing? |
| Milena | Yeah, so, there was also accusing of, I think also of like beer cans, which wasn’t us, it was – like there were works going on upstairs, not to go into it… I was just like, it just felt so lopsided. I was just like, what is going on at the council? I don’t know. And I just – we even got David Lammy involved. David Lammy’s office. Like my care coordinator. It wasn’t him who messaged, but like his office. And it’s just like – but it shouldn’t – just tell us what’s happening. I dunno. |
| Me | And did, once your care coordinator helped you’d got David Lammy’s office to write, did the council seem more responsive at that point? Like once more pressure had been put on them? |
| Milena | A little bit. Yeah. No, they did. It was a bit better. I think it helped with my care coordinator, and I think David Lamy helped. I mean having said that, it’s still – it’s gone back down again, like they’ve done a bit of work and we were like, are you gonna take it down? Is it finished? I keep asking. Is it finished? And they’re kind of like, we’ll pass on the message. Don’t you have reports that tell you what’s happening? I just, or like, I don’t know. And also the people downstairs, they’ve got scaffolding in their garden for ages. It’s not even their problem, and they have to be putting up with, you know. So again, it’s not the worst thing in the world, but you’re like, imagine if you had a major, major issue and that people behave like that. I can’t imagine what it’s like with other tenants or people, you know, I dunno what it’s like with council housing, if there’s priority there. I don’t know. I don’t know what the treatment was like with the guy upstairs. He’s one of the few council tenants that’s left. |
| Me | So are most of the other tenants, or people who live here – |
| Milena | Private, yeah. Interesting story about the guy. So the people who lived here before, there were a couple with twins. The guy, he’d been here since he was six months old. And he was, he’s like around 40 now. And his parents bought the flat with Right to Buy, but he just stayed here all that time and like bought – I think him and his sister bought the flat off the parents, and then him and his wife bought the flat. So he’s been here a while. But I think they liked it, but they just said that it was just the twins. It was too small for them, but I don’t know. Yeah… Lorna… I shouldn’t really say, but there’s some characters on the estate. It’s funny. It’s certainly like, it’s certainly interesting. And like, they, the people who’ve been here for quite a while… But yeah, other people have complained about damp. I think I’ve put it in the group chat. |
| Me | I wonder if there’s something about being so close to the canal. If the water impacts it somehow. |
| Milena | Yeah. I think it is. I feel like it’s the insulation. And it’s funny that it makes sense: I’m above the garage and I get it; she’s not above the garage, and she doesn’t get it. Hannah, my housemate. But generally like, yeah, the design is really good and like the sorts of light and it’s just that design flaw really. But like this, this estate won awards, architecture awards. All you have to do is put a question in the group chat, and everyone comes back with so much information. |
| Me | You feel like it’s quite like a tight knit, like community? |
| Milena | Yeah. I would say that. Or like – but also people get really pissed off about minor things. It’s quite funny. |
| Me | Like the hair? |
| Milena | Oh yeah. Or like the boats outside. What’s wrong with the boats? And then there’ll be another lady that will like argue with another one about her being really petty. And it’s just funny what people worry about. I mean, generally I’m quite… But people get so – like not nosy, but they’re just things that I wouldn’t even think about worrying about. But this is just quite, this is different. Cause it’s like ceiling falling in like, or like damp in your room. That’s not – and if,
especially if your clothes – it’s not, it’s not ideal. But again, like, there is a lot going on in my life. Like I still don’t worry about it too much. It doesn’t affect me too much. I don’t think. But I’m sure it could get really annoying, especially if the Council is so slow to respond, it could get really difficult for people. It is just another stress. But I don’t know if like… I have a friend that lives a few doors down, he’s actually a Syrian refugee, but he’s leaving now. The flat. But he had problems as well, with damp. But yeah, I think… But yeah. It just highlights the problems that there are with the Council. I heard there’s even problems with like – actually, “even” – Kensington and Chelsea. But then obviously they were neglecting the biggest housing disaster for the last, I don’t know, a hundred years. I don’t know. But they’re just saying it’s across a lot of Councils where it’s just kind of… My friend who lives in Lambeth, who I was in Brixton yesterday with, has a similar thing with her kitchen. There’s like a massive damp leak. And she said the same thing. There was like all these different contractors and then didn’t speak to each other and they were asking the same question. Like, that’s exactly the same thing that happens to me. And she’s actually in an ex council estate as well. She’s a private renter. Yeah. |
| Me | And say the problem in your bedroom, are there aspects of it that bother you more like the damp on the clothes versus on the walls? |
| Milena | I think the thing that – when it’s winter and it just kept going black. I bought like anti mould paints. But when it kept going black, I just felt really dirty. Like, I’ve got this in my room. I just need like a place – with everything that’s happened in the last few – I just like, I need a place where I can just feel like things are – I have a lot of clutter – but just things are at peace, where I don’t have to worry about doing that. It’s still not that bad, but you just… Yeah, it doesn’t make you feel very nice. Yeah. |
| Me | And do you work from home a lot as well? |
| Milena | Well, in my last job, when I was working for this consultancy, I was working from home most of the time, not coming into the office that much at all. But now I work for the Trust. I was gonna try, well… Cause I’d actually, it’s a nice flat, but I don’t… I try and avoid working from home if I can. Cause I don’t actually enjoy it very much. I feel like I’ve spent enough time on my own. I mean I have my housemate, but what I mean is I don’t… Yeah, I think everyone, I don’t know. I personally like being in a co-working space. Yeah, I think… I got, well, after I had my second psychosis psychotic, I’ve only had two as I, and then I got diagnosed with bipolar. But I had like a really high point, and then after that I got really depressed after. So in the summer, last year I was really depressed and like, anything like to do with the house, like being in the house, was just like stressful. And you’d become, like – everything was just worse because you were just… You was here all the time and you internalised everything. And then if you just went outside and you were just like, oh, there’s life outside and life isn’t that bad. But it’s hard to know if it was because of the pandemic easing up that I got better or because of a job change or because of now that I start taking lithium, which is to kind of manage your mood. I don’t, I can’t believe I was that low. Like I was really sad. And I don’t know if it was to do with like, being inside all the time. Working from home doesn’t suit me, working from a laptop. I mean, everyone has to work from a laptop, but I mean, just getting up in the morning and going and sitting in the kitchen all here to. And it was – some people don’t even have that space. You know, I have lucky that I have that space. So I was just like, this is really bad for me, you know, that’s not really to do with damp. But yeah, this is just, it’s just one of those things of like, it seems much worse when you’re constantly in the same place all the time. And so yeah, the damp, if I was, if I’m out, like now I don’t really work, I try and go out as much as possible. I’m always going to gigs or trying to just stay out. And so I don’t really, I’m not too precious about… I like to keep a home nice, but I’m not like home is my life. Whereas people – we kind of got a bit of a society where everything is about the home. I know I’m a homeowner. But like, I’m not interested in necessarily making money. I was just like, if I can do it. But it’s just this idea that everything is about the house. Like buying stuff for the house. You know, just everything is centred around the home and I’m interested in more like the commons. |
| Me | Yeah, it’s like a national obsession, isn’t it? |
| Milena | Yeah. It’s like home ownership. |
| REDACTED | |
| Milena | This is more – I’m doing it not because I, yeah, I dunno. I’m not interested in being a landlord or anything. I’m just like, this is just a bit more steady than rent. Like if I can do it, I can do it. But I wouldn’t mind renting if it was just more, I don’t know, like it’s more normal than other countries to rent and I think, yeah. |
| REDACTED | |
| Milena | People just want private space. I mean I like private space too, but I like this estate because it felt like there were lots of kind of inward looking houses and it was like lots of courtyards and, the design. |
| Me | And so was a motivation to buy also like the instability in renting? |
| Milena | Yeah, I’d say so. I remember like we were renting this – me and my ex – we were renting a shitty, really shitty apartment in Whitechapel. It was really… Like they didn’t do any work to it at all. And they would just up the rent every year. And you’re like, what’s the reason for this? They’d just be like, well, the market. And it’s just like, you’ve literally done nothing to this place and it really needs work. And I was just like, I dunno, I just… It’s like a control thing, like having some… But then even, you know, it sounds like even renting from the Council, if you have social housing, they behave like that, because they’re the landlord, and maybe it’s the same for council housing as well. Like cause they’re the freeholder here, the council’s a freeholder. I dunno what it’s like for people with live in social housing, which is obviously really hard to get. And also I didn’t like the idea of, like we are subsidising private landlords. Like the government is giving money to landlords instead of building social housing.It’s so much more expensive to do that than just building like the housing. And I just didn’t like that people were just like… Like, I’m not interested in that, I just wanna live here. I want to be part of the community. I don’t see it as like an asset. Like I wouldn’t care if I didn’t make any money off this place. I just a… It is security that. But at the same time, like what happens, like if you lose a job and then you have to pay your mortgage. And it’s like, Ahhhh. |
| Me | And with how your interactions with the council have been, does that make you feel like less secure? Or secure is probably the wrong word, has that impacted like that feeling for you? |
| Milena | Oh yeah. I definitely feel insecure dealing with the council for sure. I feel like it’s talking to a void. I know that councils have had major cuts and I don’t know, but I don’t know what’s going on. It’s just so… It feels like smoke mirrors. Like you don’t really know – it’s very… You are dealing with so many different people. So that doesn’t make me feel very… But you know what? It was the same when I was – so, the flat I owned in Bow, it was like a private management company that was managing things and it was also quite bad to deal with. So it’s not necessarily that the Council’s any worse. They were still a bit dodgy. |
| Me | I think I have one more question and then we can wrap up. What do you wish that could have happened? Or how do you think the situation could have been dealt with better? |
| Milena | Like the, with the Council? |
| Me | Yeah. Or just in general with like, with your damp problem as a whole, if that makes sense. It doesn’t necessarily need to do the Council, but it can be. |
| Milena | I think the reporting, the process of reporting a problem. The software we had to report it. You tried calling, but you just would never get through. The reporting tool online was just so clunky and difficult to use. And then you’d send a request and you had… You don’t know, you were sent to requests and you didn’t know, you didn’t have proper record as to what, where it was like, you had no visibility as to where it was in the queue. And, yeah, I think the thing they could have improved is communication – the status of things. And communication amongst the people that are working on the particular issue, between each other. So reports are made, but they’re obviously not read by the next person who has to deal with the issue. So they use different contractors. They should be able to have access to the reporting, surely? And also, I think there’s negligence in terms of clarity in reporting. Like they would miss off information and so on. So yeah, I think communication and just clarity would be helpful, you know? |
| Me | I actually have one more question. |
| Milena | That’s alright. |
| Me | Were there any other groups, or people, or organisations you talked to other than the Council and David Lammy’s office? Did you reach out to other people on the estate or like a residence association? |
| Milena | Yeah. I just reached out to people in the group and Lorna, but she was an ex Councillor. I thought that she could help. And then she put me in touch with the managing director of Homes for Haringey. Ruth Gordon was good. I dunno how he got in touch with Ruth. I think Lorna also told me about Ruth. I should have, I mean, I could have just looked up the local Councillor. Ruth was saying how embarrassing it was. She was just like, what’s going on? So this clearly just me, like, it’s not my imagination. Like it’s clearly not good. But then Ruth did come back and say there’s been issues everywhere, with like delays and it’s like a backlog of work. I dunno if it’s just the pandemic who knows. It’s just really… I just feel like there’s so many people involved and it shouldn’t, you should have like, again, like we had one point of contact, but then they change and it just seems… I dunno how they – what the governance is or like how it’s managed. Like, it just seems very confusing. |
| Me | Is there anything else you wanna mention or bring up? |
| Milena | I guess I’m just… I feel like generally people, like, I feel like it’s a very like isolating experience. Or you realise how isolated people are. Generally. I feel there’s not very good… Like, yeah. As someone who like, obviously being no longer in a relationship, I was just like, suddenly I wanna reach out to people. I want to like build it, or I want to be part of a community. I want to know people that I deal with or like try and create some kind of sense of like, solidarity amongst… Oh, you know, and when it feels like no one has time for anyone else or like… It’s just like, you should know the people you’re dealing with at a Council. They should be visible. I feel like everyone is invisible. I’m not saying like everything about community is good. Like sometimes people can be too nosy or like too involved in other people’s lives. But I just feel like it’s really hard to kind of develop a rapport with others or get to know people, like make people feel like they care about each other. You know what I mean? I just feel like… Cause I care about those things. I just feel like it doesn’t feel there’s much of a caring. I don’t know if it’s because it’s a place where it’s a very transient place to live – London in general. But then a lot of people have been here for many years. But yeah, it’s just, you just feel a bit invisible and you’re really trying and yeah. So I just feel like it’d be nice if there was more of a sense of feeling cared for, and also you give care. You know, that’s what I want. |
| REDACTED |