Interview 03
Transcript from interview survey respondent, Alex. This interview took place via Zoom at Alex’s request; Alex kept his camera off for the entirety of it. Text has been redacted in cases of personally identifying information (of the interviewee or others they know), irrelevance, and the interviewees asking for certain topics not to be recorded.
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| Me | To just start by telling me a bit about the house or like property that they were living in where there were these issues. So, how long had you been living there? I think you said it was your mum’s flat, right? |
| Alex | Yes, that’s right. Um, this was before – so I moved out in, um, 2020. And so I was put in a, um, foster care placement.But, um, well, my relationship with my mum has since improved. So, um, I’ve been helping him with her damp issue as well, as of last year. So, yeah. |
| Me | And so was the problem something that was – was it present when you were living there? Is it something that you’ve only been, cause you just said you’d been helping her again with it since last year. Is that like, it became a problem last year or, or that’s just that the relationship has got better? |
| Alex | So, um, we moved into that flat. So that flat is a three bed flat. And we moved in 2018. We had already started seeing problems, um, with the bathroom, um, especially with like the type of paint, um, that was used because it wasn’t waterproof. So, um, I mean, we didn’t really think much of it. And Lambeth Council is, like, really poor in terms of, um, getting back with responses in terms of like repairs and stuff. So we just put up with it. But then as the months went by, and then like the more showers that we were having, we started noticing like this… There was already mould there, but it wasn’t like as noticeable, but then the mould was just like, riddled like the whole ceiling. And it got to the point where, um, mouldy paint started like dropping off from the ceiling and falling on us when we were showering. Um, and we just, like, needed to address it because, you know, it’s just like really unsafe. We contacted the council, um, I believe this was in like 2019, but then nothing came off of it. So we were calling and calling and calling and they said, you know, we’ll book appointments, engineers will come to the property to have a look. Engineers did come, but then nothing would come off of it. They’d say, oh, we’ll rebook an appointment, someone else will come in to sort out the issue, and we’d never hear from them again. And then we’re back at square one and we have to start all over again. So it was just like an endless cycle. In my room as well, I did have an issue with damp. I tried ventilating my room as much as possible. But it just kept growing and I didn’t understand why. We used mould sprays. We’d used dehumidifiers, nothing was working. So, yeah. |
| Me | And in terms of – so, it was a three bed flat, right? So were you aware that there were other people in the building, uh, that also were experiencing similar problems? |
| Alex | Not that I’m aware of, no. I mean, my neighbours are quite like closed off, so we didn’t really know about their experiences. I think they’d also been living there for like a much longer period of time, so they probably like had, um, more time to kind of like get the issue sorted and things like that. |
| Me | And so you say you moved in, in 2018, just for context. Were you moving from another Council flat or was that, um, your first Council flat that you and your family were allocated to? |
| Alex | So that was actually the first council flat that we moved into, and before that – so that was from July, 2017, um, till February, 2018 – we were living in temporary accommodation in Croydon. I think that one was probably the worst damp that I’d ever seen. And it was in my brother’s room. So this was an actual, like three beds, semidetached house. It was really nice. I didn’t think that like any problem would arise compared to like all the other places that we’ve lived in, in temporary accommodation with housing associations. But in my brother’s room, I think he could only like sleep there for like two or three months until like mould had riddled like the whole room from like the carpet, the walls, the ceiling, like, it was just like really, really bad. And the mould got into… So my brother moved out of that room and was sleeping with my mum. Um, and like, we just put like furniture in there for storage as well. But then the mould also got into the furniture, the books, some of the extra clothes that we put in there. Yeah, it was, it was just bad, but it wasn’t as bad. In comparison to like when we moved into our actual first Council flat. |
| Me | And so you’re talking about contacting the council and stuff. And I know you also said you contacted your MP as well. Other than sending these contractors who didn’t do anything, did they offer advice? I know you mentioned getting a dehumidifier. Was that something that they like supplied or something you had in your family you had to for yourselves? |
| Alex | We, well my mum, managed to get one secondhand. So it was like less than a hundred pounds, which was lucky for us because like dehumidifiers – a good dehumidifier – is above, like in the hundreds. They didn’t really give us advice. It only seemed like they were there to kind of pretty much collect the money that they were going to be paid for that slot. I think my mum was just researching like her own options in terms of like, how to deal with mould and damp. When the pain started like dropping on us, when we were showering, my mum took it up on herself to, um, remove all of the paint before like more pain started falling off. So the ceiling was pretty much bare. Also the walls in the bathroom had mould in it as well. So she would try to treat it with bleach. So like, I think like once a month, she would like really go into it, try to bleach everything to make sure that the mould wouldn’t spread, but then it would just come back again. The same with my room as well. She encouraged me to like bleach where the mould was. But then again, the same problem. So yeah. |
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| Me | I was wondering as well. Um, were there other, any other organisations, other than your council or the MP who you reached out to at any point? So like, um, residents, associations, renting unions, um, different charities or things like that. |
| Alex | Mm-hmm, um. My mum was looking into legal options. But I just told her, like, you know, we don’t really have like much like to stand on because of the fact that like, it keeps going back to square one and we haven’t like actually had… Well, what I basically wanted to do was like, kind of like build a mountain of evidence so that it was overwhelmingly in our favour, rather than it being very balanced between us and the Council. I also was talking to my mum about like, maybe getting into contact with Kwajo Housing, on Twitter. Because like he’d been doing an amazing job in calling out Councils and housing associations in terms of like how poorly they treat their tenants in terms of like repairing certain situations. And like some of the damp that I’d seen and that he’d like, took pictures of, took videos of, I just thought like, you know, maybe ours isn’t as bad, but it’s still worth a try. But my mum didn’t feel comfortable doing that, so we just stayed with like contacting our MP and the Council. So yeah. |
| Me | It’s interesting you’re saying about your mum not feeling comfortable with that. Was that because of, kind of it then becoming a really public thing on like social media and stuff, or was there another reason she wasn’t keen? |
| Alex | Um, I think it was mainly like the publicity. She really didn’t want, she didn’t feel comfortable doing that, and… I guess she was too proud to kind of ask for help on that level? Yeah, I mean, it makes sense, like why she wouldn’t do that. But I just thought, like, you know, if, I mean, he’s had an amazing track record in like getting, um, tenants’ issues sorted. So I thought like, you know, it might be worth a try, but yeah. |
| Me | Yeah, for sure. I really understand that with social media in particular – it’s so hard to know how many people will end up seeing it or where it will end up. Kind of following on to something similar to what you’re talking about here, I guess your mum feeling ‘too proud’ in terms of not wanting it to become this public thing. I know you also talked about feeling embarrassed for guests to see it. I was wondering if there was anything else you wanted to send that? Cause this is something that a lot of people I have talked to – it comes up a lot basically. Most people talk about this kind of like, yeah, embarrassment of having people around or not doing normal things you would do in the house. And I was wondering if there’s anything more, you understand that? |
| Alex | We’ve actually never invited a guest since we’ve lived here. Um, well she, since she’s lived there as well. And, yeah. I mean, it kind of like, she always says like, you know, I’m gonna make the house nice so that I can finally be comfortable in like, inviting people round. It never happens. And I think also the bathroom is like the main, main thing. Because, so our toilet and our like bathroom is separate, but the sink is in the bathroom to wash your hands. So they’re gonna be exposed to it anyway. And yeah, my mum just did not feel really comfortable doing that because like she thought they’d think like, oh, how could she be keeping it – how could she be keeping the bathroom in such a state? And things like that so. |
| Me | Yeah, it can be so easy to feel like, I don’t know, why can’t I fix it or like, why can’t I get on top of it? Other people would think like that. |
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| Me | I wanted to just, this was more clarifying, cause I feel like I normally ask this, but I don’t think I did so – how many people were you living with? Your mum and your brother? |
| Alex | Yeah, just the three of us. |
| Me | Okay, perfect. Sorry. I think you’ve talked about your brother in the previous temporary accommodation had a lot of damp in his room as well. I was wondering if any of you experienced any like health problems that you thought were related to it? So like allergies, asthma type things. |
| Alex | Not in the previous home. However, I did have a bit of a scare in 2018. So a few months after we moved in, and when there was like damp in the corner of my room. The doctors still don’t know like what caused it, but I almost went into
anaphylactic shock. Yeah. And it’s just, it was weird. So I woke up… like quite early in the morning, it was like four or 5:00 AM, and my lips felt really tight and stuff, but cos it was dark, I just thought, okay, this will just probably pass in the morning. But then I went back to sleep again. I woke up in the morning. My face was really swollen. Like I could barely – my eyesight was very blurry – I could barely fully open my eyes. My cheeks were swollen. My lips were very very swollen. I mean, when I went to see my mum in the morning, like she was just shocked, like why my face was like that. Um, and it was even more strange because I don’t have any known apparent allergies. But I still had to go to school because GCSEs were coming up. But then. So this was like around, um, 7:30, it was mainly swollen around my face. By the time it was like 10 o’clock, it started like spreading to my neck and that’s when it actually became like, like I need to go to A&E. Then I managed to get there in time. Took some medication to reduce the swelling. But they couldn’t find a cause of it. I did some allergy testing as well, and they put down like dust, um, pollen and… something else? Well dust and pollen were the main things. But I’m just thinking like dust and pollen could not have like seriously made me almost die. It just really didn’t make any sense. So, yeah. I don’t know. It’s something I still think about today. And that’s why I’m like very, very careful around… like places like that, you know. |
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| Me | And I assume that was like an isolated thing, from what you’re saying? |
| Alex | Yeah. |
| Me | I hope you find out what caused it. |
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| Me | You’ve talked a lot about the council’s lack of response and lack of care. Is there anything you’d like to say about how did that make – rather than like, what happened – how did that make you like feel? Experience that emotionally, if that makes sense. |
| Alex | Hmmm, so when did I first get in contact with them? I think when we really took you seriously in November, um, last year. So I emailed… So I wanted to find the neighbourhood housing officer to kind of tackle this problem. First I tried calling her: no reply. I tried emailing her to which she responded. And then I like attached pictures and videos with evidence and stuff. Then. Nothing. For months on end. And I just got really annoyed at the fact that like… Lambeth Council, when like you’re paying rent for pretty much an unsafe property. And like, if you stop paying rent for like one week they’re all over you, but they can’t even treat a simple problem, which would improve the standard of living for the tenant. It’s just ridiculous. And when I got my MP involved, that’s when they really started taking things seriously. But even then, like I contacted my MP… Actually I can have a quick look for you with my emails. Let me have a look… |
| Me | If you can’t find it though, don’t worry. No need to, like, it doesn’t all need to be a hundred percent… But if it’s helpful to you feel free, but yeah, don’t worry if you can’t find it. |
| Alex | Yeah. Found it. So I contacted my MP the first time in September. Oh, sorry. Yes. So I contacted my MP in September. Then I contacted my housing officer in November to see like, hello, like I’ve contacted my MP, please get onto this so that we can get this issues sorted as soon as possible. Yeah, but again, still nothing, which was just really frustrating as well. I also contacted my local Councillor, but… To be, she was useless to be honest, like she was just not doing anything. She said like, oh, I’m gonna be in contact with, Lambeth Council, blah, blah, blah, blah. To this day, I have not heard anything from her. So I just, honestly just can’t be bothered with her. But it was just really, when she said like, oh, I can help you, blah, blah, blah. But like, you’re not fulfilling that? Um, yeah, it was just, I mean, I understand like they have, like, they’re inundated probably with so many emails and so many calls and so many meetings, but, um, it just doesn’t make any sense, you know? Um, yeah. |
| Me | Out of interest who was your MP and, and Councillor? |
| Alex | So my MP was Helen Hayes and my Councillor was Scarlette O’Hara. |
| Me | I can imagine in particular – was it particularly frustrating that like, not only did she like air you, but she previously was like, oh, I’m gonna do this, this and this. Did that feel worse than when you’re just ignored off the bat? |
| Alex | Yeah. So, um, just to give you a bit more context around the timeframes and stuff, I’m just looking over my emails. Um, so. The neighbourhood housing officer, um, sent me an email and said like, we have been contacted by Councillor Scarlette O’Hara in relation to repairs needed in the bathroom. But then for some reason the pictures didn’t attach to the email I sent. So I sent them back. This was in October. Didn’t hear back till December. And I was just going back and forth, back and forth with like, uh, my Councillor, like saying like, hello… like, I still need your help with this. And sorry, I’m just quickly looking over. Yeah, so. October my Councillor contacts Lambeth Council about the repairs that need to be done. Lambeth Council ask for the pictures. I sent them. I don’t hear back from Lambeth Council till December. In November, I send an email back to my Councillor saying, you know, I sent the pictures, I haven’t heard anything, could you try getting in contact with them? Cause nothing’s happening? A month later my Councillor replies and says like, can you update me on your situation? Have repairs been carried out now? I, of course, say no, nothing’s happened. Then she says, okay, thanks for getting back to me. I will follow this up for you. Then I hear nothing. That’s the last time I heard from her. And that was in, on the 26th of November. Sorry I’m just looking if I’ve missed anything. No, and that was it. And then I just stopped bothering with my Councillor and just moving onto my MP. And Helen Hayes has been amazing. I mean, I understand like the amount of emails and phone calls that she must be getting is probably triple or four times more. But like, she has been amazing in terms of like getting back, getting into contact, and actually like getting things done. But it’s just really frustrating because like I understand – the last email I sent was on the 15th of December, which was around, probably parliamentary recess, where they go off after holidays for Christmas. But then like, like, hello, we’re still like in an unsafe building, you know? Um, it’s just really, really frustrating when I had to do all of that. |
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| Me | Now back to, we were talking about what we were talking about with your MP. Something that I was wondering, because obviously, I feel like the press and stuff and thanks to people like Kwajo, you see MPs and politicians talking a lot more about bad conditions in social housing. Have you felt that there’s, has there been any change for you in terms of like, does your Council seem more, or MP seem, quicker to reply or is it still the same? Has nothing really changed? |
| Alex | I don’t think anything’s really changed to be honest. Even with Lambeth Council in terms of advice that they give to tenants. Like even for mine, when I signed my contract, I just realised that it was the same, pretty much the same thing as the contract that my mum got in terms of like, advice of like upkeep and things like that. And it said that try to limit condensation in your flat, because it’s pretty much, if you get damp is pretty much your fault. Which I found a bit ridiculous because like, if you are getting a lot of condensation and you are getting a lot of damp in your flat, that means that like, for example, windows or like ventilation isn’t structurally sound. And it should also be also maybe ok, not like fully the responsibility of the tenant, at least partly responsible with the Council of help to kind of resolve the issue. But the advice is still the same. And I think that Lambeth Council are pretty much like pushing back on it in terms of like, helping with these issues. But like when it gets really bad to the point where like a whole room’s riddled with mould, it’s pretty much like you have to step in, you know. And like with, especially with, um, people like Kwajo, where they’re so pivotal in terms of like sparking change and getting media attention about it. It’s just, yeah, it, I think it’s like really, really key to have more people like him. First of all, to get MPs listening, issues like this and to resolve these issues quicker, before it becomes an issue that spirals out of control. I think also for housing associations and Councils, to make sure that they reply to tenants repair reports as quick as possible before, again, it spirals out of control. Because especially with our one. So, um, our bathroom floor has started collapsing. And so the bathroom floor is the ceiling to the hallway. And as you can see, I think, I hope you can imagine it. So it’s really, I mean, I can pretty much put my hand into, onto the floor, onto the bathroom floor, from the entrance, if that makes sense. So it is really, really dangerous. And it’s just been getting worse. I thought that you know, this being like an incredibly hazardous issue, I thought that like, you know, there would be all guns blazing, like, okay, let’s get this sorted, we don’t want any injuries before they come for us in terms of compensation and things like that. I thought that’s the response that they would take. Clearly not, now that it’s taken like more than six months, you know? So yeah. It is really disappointing that housing is seen as almost like a privilege rather than a right. Especially with like, um, council tenants, housing association tenants, and things like that. And also I’ve seen this weird debate about people being ungrateful for being in council housing, that’s like in really poor condition. And almost being jealous of council housing because like, oh, I’ve bought my house, like, you know, for more than 400,000 pounds, you’re living in a flat that’s like 500 to 600 pounds a week, I mean, a month, you should be grateful for being in your condition, blah, blah, blah. Things like that. And it is really disappointing. And I wish like, things like that… Maybe just having like more empathy, you know, could help get these situations sorted, but yeah. Sorry. I’ve just ranted for a really long time. |
| Me | No, no, no, don’t say sorry, don’t say sorry. That was super yeah. Interesting. And especially shocking, with this issue of the bathroom floor and hallway, It’s such a big hazard, so it’s the sort of thing that you’d think maybe they would act quicker. |
| Alex | Yeah. |
| Me | I really hope it does get resolved quickly – or quicker than it is at the moment. When you were talking about this trend of people… Uh, how to phrase it. How did you phrase it? Being like, oh, you should be grateful for your council housing? Is that something you get a sense of from social media or the news or somewhere else? |
| Alex | Definitely social media and mainly Tik Tok. I feel like social media has just become like… Just this ugly thing where people can like, think that they’re just anonymously – well, they pretty much are anonymously voicing their opinions – and thinking about there’s no repercussions for their actions. But I’m just reading the comments and I’m just thinking like, this is the country that I live in. And it’s just really disgusting and really disappointing that people think like this. Sure enough, like you are in a position where you are more well off, you could save more money for a deposit to put down onto a house. That’s fine. But then of course there are other people who aren’t in that position. So I don’t understand, like, what’s the point of like going after council tenants rather than like, the landlords, the billionaire and millionaire investors from overseas who are buying up properties and like hiking up the prices to the point where it’s almost unlivable and especially in London – and cities around the UK as well. It’s almost like. Again, it’s this thinking of like, it’s always from the top to the bottom and like it’s causing like this infighting between people at the bottom so that it kind of distracts them from people at the top. And from the people at the top, I kind of mean like, um, millionaire and billionaire landlords, investors, people who just like… For example, like I think there was a council flat – there’s people that buy really, um, pretty much derelicts council houses, and do them up really nicely, but like mark up the price to like ridiculously high. Like two and a half thousand pounds a month for like a two bed is just… it’s too much, you know? And like you’re having more and more people sharing houses as well. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s…. It’s just really disappointing. And also like with Kwajo’s Twitter posts, I read the comments as well. And again, people are trying to shift the blame onto the tenant for those issues, like with infestations, with structural issues and things like that. It doesn’t make any sense to me, you know? And I think that that’s like the main, kind of like, not even the main factor, but like one of the factors why, I think that it takes so long for issues like just to get sorted as well. For council tenants. Um, yeah, I think if there’s anything else, cause I had a point in my head, oh it’s gone… |
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| Alex | Oh actually. It just made me think of council houses and people who’ve lived there long enough and decide to buy them. There’s also again, this like… Not really, not really stigma, but kind of like this pushback kind of like, oh, why are you buying council houses? If you can afford to buy your council house, then you can afford to buy elsewhere in London. You just leave these council houses for, to people who need this the most.And it’s just like, it’s always these opinions coming from people who bought their homes in sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties, where homes were incredibly cheap and more affordable, um, compared to now where it’s like, what 10 times that, where I think the average house is like increased now to like 450 pounds, 450,000 pounds. It just doesn’t make any sense to me because like, if you’ve lived there for long enough to the point where like you’ve been saving and you’ve been frugal, you sacrifice things to the point where you can finally enjoy having your own home with your name attached to it, rather than being attached to a landlord, a private landlord, or the council as your landlord, wouldn’t everyone want to kind of like celebrate that? Yeah, it’s just not nice to see, is it? |
| Me | Yeah, it’s just it’s so crazy how expensive everything is. So comments like, oh, well, if you can, if you could buy your counter flat, why can’t you buy another flat in London? It’s like, no one can buy a flat in London these days. I wanted to ask you, probably like coming to the last question, but we’ll have time for anything else you want to say at the end. I wanted to say first you’re so knowledgeable, it’s really inspiring. But I guess you have to end up learning all these things when you are, you know, battling the Council. |
| Alex | I just wanted to say, is pretty much through my experience of social activism and social justice and stuff that kind of started learning the structures, I guess like corporations, but like in air quotations – by corporations, I just mean like the big powers. So like, be it, private landlords, councils, housing associations, or different organisations that are in control or in power, to kind of see who is the best person to target. Cause of course you can’t target the CEO. I mean, you can, but like it’s rare that anything will come up with it. So that’s kind of like how I’ve learned, to kind of tackle issues like this. Um, and also with damp – videos, just research. But yeah, that’s kind of how I got my knowledge. |
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| Me | Something I wanted to ask, which kind of seems more relevant now, hearing about your experience. What do you think councils should be doing? What do you think, um, MPS should be doing? Like what do you think is the change that needs to happen to kind of start fixing this widespread problem? |
| Alex | Do you mean specifically damp or repair issues basically overall? |
| Me | Either. |
| Alex | Okay. I think what I’ve noticed, like, especially with – because I live in, um, the Brixton area and um, I mean I’ve pretty much lived here… So I moved to the UK from the Netherlands in 2011 and the amount of gentrification that I’ve seen is actually just insane. To the point when like, as soon as the Pret came in Brixton, I just, that was pretty much like where everything just started going downhill. Because like a lot of small businesses started getting pushed out. Um so now we have a Pret, there’s going to be an ITSU opening up soon, a Leon, and there’s just like, it’s clearly catering to a specific demographic. Um, and there’s also being, um, there’s also, uh, what’s it called? There are modern houses being also built, um, but they aren’t affordable? |
| Me | New builds? |
| Alex | Yeah, they’re new builds, but they aren’t affordable. And I’ve seen a lot of these like spring up in and around Lambeth. And it’s really disappointing that like they are starting these projects, that are again, clearly being catered to a specific group of people, rather than using that money to reinvest into existing council tenants first, in terms of treating – even if it’s like a small issue, that can like drastically improve someone’s standard of living with Lambeth Council. Um, but it’s just, again, it’s just disappointing to see, because like, it’s clear that Lambeth council are pushing towards like investors and millionaires and yeah… I just wish that they took the approach of treating their tenants first. Rather than people who’ve – um, and I don’t mean this in like a discriminatory way in terms of like, people who’ve newly moved to Lambeth, um, being like at the back of the line – but I think that like, because there’s such a backlog of so many report and repair issues, being left un-done or being left, even unseen. I think that must be tackled first rather than focusing and pumping money into developments like that, you know? |
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| Me | I think that is coming to the end of everything I wanted to ask you. I wanted to before we finish, is there anything you kind of wanna say that we haven’t talked about or anything else you wanna add? |
| Alex | Oh, the damp got treated! A few weeks. Actually lemme quickly check when it got treated. I think it got treated in May. Sorry, I said a few weeks, but it was actually a few months. Um, sorry. Yes, it was in June. So, um, it was treated in June. They’ve repainted everything. Well, they treated like the mould first. They repainted everything. I hope it was with waterproof paint, cos if not… God, I don’t even want to think. Of like going all the way back to square one. But it looks so much better now. There were a few issues with the bathroom anyway. So we had like, a leakage as well. The bathtub wasn’t draining properly. And we still have the bathroom floor collapsing as an issue that needs to get sorted. But at least that’s one thing off our list. And I’m so, so happy with that. So yeah. |
| Me | Well thank you for sharing. It was really nice to hear. I feel like it’s so nice to hear something positive sometimes. That’s great news and I hope the other stuff gets fixed as well. |
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| Alex | Thank you so much, for listening to me, ramble on. And thank you so much for doing your masters in this issue, because I think that like, it’s such a niche thing, but you are shedding light on something that is so important and has gotten to be like, so underground |