Interview 06
Transcript from interview with survey respondent, Hilda. This interview took place at her current flat in South East London, also privately rented. While this flat did have a problem with damp and mould, it was not the one she had contacted me about. Text has been redacted in cases of personally identifying information (of the interviewee or others they know), irrelevance, and the interviewees asking for certain topics not to be recorded.
| Me | So we’ll probably start with just some more general questions about where you live, just to open things up at the start. So how long have you lived here? |
| Hilda | So we moved here in, I think it was August – it will be two years in, next August. So it was not last August, the one before. So I was living before then, um, me and my brother and my daughter in Camberwell, and we still had like quite a long time left on our lease, but this place has been on a long lease. So friends of ours took it, had a 10 year lease on it and they kind of did the conversion. So it was just a garage. And it’s been changing throughout all that time. So you, you can even see in the studio, there’s the kind of place where the it’s like a pit in the ground and there’s where the cars would come in. And that’s what that thing was. But, yeah. So then over that 10 years, like lots of my friends have lived here and anyway, so I kind of knew lots of people who said, oh, it’s coming up, you know, they’re there, they’re gonna step out, and the landlord was looking for somebody else. So yeah, we decided we – me and my brother – really wanted to move here because it was like in the middle of, you know, we’d had lockdowns, but it was COVID and where we were living was just, a really like, I didn’t, you know, I was sleeping in the living room. There was literally no outdoor space at all. It was really hard with my daughter and I was just like, all I wanted was space. And so yeah, we took it on. But we had the really complicated thing of trying to get out of our previous lease. And that was so stressful. So then my best friend, from long time moved in, and my brother’s old friend, Greg too. So there’s now four of us, plus my daughter, it’s four adults and Willa. And then cause there’s the studio part we’d sublet or, you know, rent out to two artists as well. Yeah, but we are due to be moving out at the end of this summer. So yeah. |
| Me | And we’re getting out of your other tendency, did you have to find people to replace you? |
| Hilda | Yeah. It’s horrible. It was such a nightmare. And so we had like, cos we’d already moved in here. So we had like this overlap time where we were paying double rent, and I guess it was also like, I dunno, it just felt like a really, really hectic time, because I guess because of COVID too, it just felt like there was like, it felt like quite few people with like trying to move into a tiny flat with no outdoor space. |
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| Hilda | That was, it was a really – it was really stressful. Our flat was – in a way, like when we had signed onto it was an unusually cheap flat because it was in really bad condition. And they were like, basically, and it was, you know, the landlord was also I think was quite a sweet guy who wasn’t – you know, it was like some old family flat that he – I don’t think it was like his income type thing. And he just wanted someone on the long lease and was like you can have it for quite cheap if you sign for a long lease and you do all of the… Because it was crazy, it was like, there were these massive holes in the wall and stuff, which we were fixing. And soin a way, you know, then we had done a lot of tidying up, it looked a lot nicer than when we took it. So I was initially like, oh, it’ll be easy to get somebody to move in. It’s a good rent, but yeah. Because of that whole thing, it was suddenly not such a good rent. |
| Me | And similar to what you were saying about people wanting outside space and well, suddenly everyone who had saved money over the pandemic because they hadn’t been commuting and stuff like that, were like yeah, I’ll splash out, you know, get somewhere with a nice little balcony, why not? |
| Hilda | And also the other thing as well is I did feel really bad about with that place was like… Although this isn’t – that flat wasn’t the one that I was sort of referring to when talking about damp, but it did have bad damp. In my mind, it wasn’t bad, as bad, because it was nowhere near as bad as the place that we’d come from. But I also was really, you know, felt really uncomfortable, because, you know, you take somewhere in the summer and there’s not any. And it was just like, ah, shit. |
| Me | I feel like that’s such a big common experience, just cause so many people’s tendencies start and end in like August, September. And so the place before, was the place that had the damp problem? |
| Hilda | Yeah. So two houses, two houses ago. So that also I was living with my daughter and my brother, and then my brother’s partner at the time. And that was also in Camberwell. And so that would’ve been, oh God, about… So my daughter is now five, almost six, and she would’ve been like, between the ages of like one and a half, two, three sort of? I think we were only in that house for a year, but it was maybe one and a half to two and a half, would be, yeah… So about 2, 3 years ago. That doesn’t sound – anyway. Yeah it was like – I think the part that we were in had been an old type factory or something. And it was kind of amazing, the architecture. It was completely weird, but I also loved it. So that was the back part. And then they built newer houses into the kind of – they sort of extended the building into actually newer built bits that came forward. So it was almost like you come in and there was a car park, flat buildings around it, and then you went up some stairs into the older factory part of the building and there were a little mini courtyard with flats around it, and then up some more stairs and a kind of balcony ledge with flats around it. Almost like a wedding cake. It was genuinely really bizarre. I can show you pictures actually after, it’s called Hopewell Yard. And I loved it. The building and the flat itself. So ours was in that kind of courtyard on the second tier type section. So it was 1, 2, 3, 4 flats that all looked around this central bit. And it was nice, you know, people had flowers and like benches and we got really nice with our neighbours and stuff. And then it looked like a sort of shop front. It was just like all glass, like the whole front of our flat. So that was the living room, but then there was literally no other windows. That the courtyard that went onto the courtyard, and it was a small courtyard, so not much light came into it, but it was just huge and open. And then you sort of come back into the flat and it had this large living space and then three small bedrooms. |
| Me | None of which had windows? |
| Hilda | The window – all the bedrooms, the bedrooms did have windows, one window each. But they, you know, a month after we moved in a massive building development was like this far in front of the windows. And they had, it was kind of crazy, like there was –so there’s this huge glass front thing there, then there was this kind of strange pillar, like the kind of house had, and I guess this was from the factory, these kind of pillar type beam things that would just randomly cut into a room. And then the wall that had the windows on in the bedrooms was all like exposed brick. And also the result of the glass window fronted living room was that there was no window that opened. So although in the living room, although it was sort of spacious and it felt in this weird kind of sense light, but not really, when it started to get damp it was like, there was literally no window you could open in that room. The only thing you could do would open the door, which we did obviously in the summer, but in the winter it’s just fucking freezing. And it cold as well because of this thing. So it was a really weird combination of like cold, but so humid. And then the bedrooms, the exposed brick wall was just like a sponge. And so my brother and his girlfriend’s room had one of these stupid beams in the middle and it was a tiny room, but there was this mezzanine thing that was built where the the space where our bed would be. So they had their bed on there, but that was against the thingy and their mattress just literally like disintegrated with mould. So they couldn’t sleep on the mezzanine and then had to literally had to cut shape out of a double bed to fit a bed and then both have their legs. Like, it was just like not a functioning bedroom for two people. |
| Me | And then did you and your daughter have a room? |
| Hilda | So we had a room each, we put her in the middle section one because it was – the other ones had, you know, two exposed walls. And so she was in the middle one, which was the biggest room and she was in a cot at that time. But even so, yeah, even it, cause it, initially her cot was to the side of the room and her cot just like grew mould. So she, I had to have it in the middle of the room touching nothing. And then I was in the far one and my room was not as bad as Jack and Fran’s, but I would wake up like literally a soaking like, well, not soaking, but like a tangibly wet bed every day. And then yeah, the main part of the living room space… It was just like a thing of like, you know, you would just wipe. You’d wipe it, and like three days later it was just like, like it just mushrooms back. And like, in a way with that room, I suppose, cause it was bigger, it was easier to manage in that you could see it around. And I did feel really worried about – cause me and my daughter were in the house a lot. I felt really worried. And she was ill. She was just ill throughout that whole winter. But it was more like, we could keep our stuff away or you didn’t have to get so actually close to it. I think the thing that it was like the bedrooms and the hallway and like where we stored our stuff where you just, like, there was no way you could, things just would get spoiled. |
| Me | And with bedrooms, the stuff you kind of keep in there is – often it’s all your like soft stuff often, like clothes – |
| Hilda | Yeah. And books. Like I remember, cause I was looking through just before we were going to have this conversation and I was trying to remember, and I was looking at some of the emails and like photos or whatever. And was like, they were kind of silly stuff, but it was just like all of her Jigsaw puzzle pieces, the top peeled off because they got, you know, and like, it was just like, the pictures came off the more, and they went floppy. And that was like, you just open things and just be like, ah, this is spoiled. |
| Me | And maybe it’s an obvious question, but was that the reason you moved out after a year, that damp? |
| Hilda | Yeah, I mean, there were some, you know, there were other reasons that would’ve probably, but no, that was the reason. I mean I actually loved the… And also, because it wasn’t that all the buildings – like I was really keen and like desperate to actually just move into another flat in that yard. I remember calling estate agents in Camberwell being like, do you want any flats in Hopewell Yard? And they’d be like, oh, I have one in a street around the corner. And I said, no, I don’t like that. I only like this one. Because it was just amazing. I think, and that’s why I was kind of describing the space, like it, it was like, not like London architecture. It was like, yeah, we had neighbours from, you know, lot’s of different places and somebody was saying, oh, this is more like South American Type arrangements. Which, I mean, I don’t know, I’ve not been, but I sort of felt when I looked at it like this doesn’t really look like London and it was great. Cause it meant literally my kid would just go and be like in the flat with somebody, cos they play together and all the doors would go and they’d just go in and out of people’s houses. And yeah, I was, I’ve never lived anywhere like that. No, it was so nice. It was really lovely. So I, yeah, I definitely liked it and, and you know, I did love the way the flat looked in some ways. I mean, the light thing was a bit of a problem, but you can get around it. It’s kind of the same here, I suppose, the same sort of feeling where it’s like, like windows and spacious, but sort of gloomy. |
| Me | And, you say none of the other flats had a problem, is that something you found from talking to the other residents? |
| Hilda | Yeah, so, I mean, I wouldn’t say none of them did, but it was very specific ones. And so we were actually directly above – because of this thing, so you come in and there’s the first car park and the flats around, and then you go up these little stairs to the second park where we were, that also is a dip down to an underground car park. So our flat was directly above the car, the underground car park. And so I think that was probably part one of the structural things. So the woman in the flat, directly above me, who’d been there for years and she had – her landlord was the same as mine – but she said, like, he knows, you know, this has been going on every single year. The tenants come, they have a terrible, terrible time. They complain, they leave, new people come. And that her flat was not – she didn’t have any damper mal problems. |
| Me | So, any other flats that had the same problems were also on the same floor, above the car park? |
| Hilda | Again, I’m not entirely, sorry. So I did know one couple who moved into the – you know, who was like the equivalent version of our. Actually, and even our direct neighbours. But those ones, I think they were slightly forward, so that could have been a better thing. But it may well be that just – they were definitely just like done up nicer. You know, or like – because there were some things, you know, so eventually they did come and they literally like drilled some holes in the wall. And to be honest that did make a tiny bit of difference. That was like the only thing that really happened. And then another guy was like sort, um, was sent round, I guess an independent person was sent around to come and like, see. And he did say to me, basically, he was like, there is some stuff that could be done, but he won’t do it cause it’s expensive. But I think that those flats probably had those steps made and, I’m sure their rents were much higher. But yeah, I would say that… I’m just trying to remember, cause I know there was one other neighbour I spoke to who did have a big problem with it. She’d said that their stuff had all got wet and she was down, I think, in the sort of new build part of it, but the ground floor as well. I think basically it was probably was a ground floor issue. |
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| Me | And you mentioned that your neighbour above had the same landlord. Do you know if he owned other ones in the block or just those two? |
| Hilda | I’m not sure. He may, I think he may have owned maybe like one more. It wasn’t – he definitely didn’t own like lots and lots. |
| Me | And how were your communications with him? |
| Hilda | So we were going via the letting agents. I’m not sure that I ever had much direct communication with the landlord. I think she must, cause she sort of told me a bit, cause she’d been there long, so she probably did have a relationship with him. So yeah, with the letting agents… |
| Me | Do you remember who the letting agents were? |
| Hilda | I can tell you. Just trying to check. Eaton Green. So yeah, we exchanged emails. You know, they asked for evidence, photos, they sent someone round, they drew those holes, they gave us a dehumidifier. I think they gave us another dehumidifier. |
| Me | But then those, I guess, become expensive to run and – |
| Hilda | Yeah, they were, it was insane. One of those things, it was just, it was extraordinary. Like how much water they just got out, they would just be on and on and on, just like litres of water. |
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| Me | Sorry. I feel like that was a massive tangent about dehumidifiers. |
| Hilda | No, but they are, you know, there’s a, they’re like… |
| Me | It’s quite a classic response. |
| Hilda | Exactly. Yeah. And like also just realising after. You know, it’s funny looking through and thinking like this, it sounds so funny and naive and I was… My goodness, Ellie did, you know there’s damp here? And then like her being like, oh, that’s terrible, send me photos. Just like – you literally do this year after year. And you would probably just have the, like dehumidifier in the office in reserve that you always send to this house, to be like, oh, you know what we could do. We could buy you this. Yeah, no, that, again, like, I, I did sort of have that feeling when we left that place. Like, I felt again, really bad just knowing that people were gonna move in and did want to report them, or like… But I wasn’t really sure, but because of like having to have like a you know, like the reference from your previous landlord for the next none, I was quite nervous about doing it. |
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| Me | I was interested whether you ever got in touch with the council or did they ever visit? |
| Hilda | I never was in touch with the council about it. And I think I… I guess I hadn’t really… Yeah, I guess I just didn’t really think that that was something I could get in touch with the Council about. |
| Me | Yeah, no, for sure. I wouldn’t have thought that either, but I noticed in the responses I was getting, loads of people who are private renters had, which surprised me. Cause I would never think to do that, or would never think you could do that as not a social tenant. |
| Hilda | Yeah, I think since then, because I’ve become, I think, and I think probably moving into this house because I just had to learn so much more – because this house is also technically a ‘not right to live in’ house. And so when we were doing the lease for it, it’s like a business working lease. But it’s had established use as a living space for 10 years. So, you know, there was a lot of this kind of thing where it was like, it’s secure, but it’s not legal, but it’s not blah. And like, I was trying to work out what vulnerabilities you have when we signed the contract, and I guess, like who I was vulnerable to, whether that was the Council or the landlord, whether, you know, all these kinds of things. And so I think that through that, I’ve just become, I’ve like learned a lot more about things and I’ve got way more used to the idea of like, I dunno, that advocating for stuff. But I think, yeah, when I think at that point, I just felt like you were basically just at the mercy of having to kind of persuade your landlord to do something. And then, and then basically it was a choice of – I mean, I had thought with that place I was, you know, my initial feeling was like, when it sort of was starting, was that I would like to stay and I would ask if they would give us a rent reduction. So that maybe like we pay to have, you know – I guess I was still wondering whether there was something where we could do, like strip the paint, do a treatment, you know, there was something we could do ourselves if they would let us do that. But yeah I just realised that he was, he would just be able to get new people in for a higher rent. And wouldn’t do that. So. |
| Me | And obviously you said the problem was seasonal. When would you say it like lasted from and until? |
| Hilda | I think it probably didn’t start until like November or something. I mean, it was quite – I feel like this sort of humidity became apparent very quickly, just like the condensation on those massive windows. And that probably was just weird, to be honest, that kind of condensation and just like slightly dampness. But like the mould stuff. And then I feel like that went on – because also once mould’s kind of coming, I don’t even think that had fully gone away until it was blazing, hot, you know? And then went. Yeah, I think that really continued. Because I’m thinking even, even in the flat we lived in following from there, when I came back – cause during the first lockdown, I went to my parents – obviously, that was that super hot summer. And then I came back still in the summertime to our flat, I hadn’t been there for, you know, three months or something. And obviously, yeah, it was a not-good condition. I guess if you locked a place up, it hasn’t had any air in it for three months, but it was like summer-summer, and I came back and my stuff was just like, so wet and gross. I think that like, it felt like it took a while for it to begin, but that was just because your stuff comes in nice and dry. And then it just slowly gets wetter and like the mould things get into it. |
| Me | You mentioned that a new development went up close to where the windows in the bedrooms looked onto. That was like soon after you moved in, right? So when you moved in, were there building works going on? |
| Hilda | So it was the building works that went up. And so the thing that actually like totally blocked it was they put their like portacabin for the building works like against the back of our building. And actually the building works weren’t finished even by the time we’d moved out. They were sort of finished shortly afterwards. And to be honest, that actually would’ve been a little bit better, I think, because I think that a bit of distance, like they would’ve been there and been big, but it was the kind of closeness of this cabin that meant there wasn’t light. |
| Me | And do you think that made a difference to the mould problem? |
| Hilda | No, I don’t think so. It made a difference to the psychological feeling of it, but I would say no. I think the… In fact, what I was told – and again, maybe this was also a bit of a like, aesthetic judgement, I was like, oh, it’s the exposed brick wall – but when the guy came into my room, he said that the main problem there was to do with the pipes. And that the pipes were like, I don’t know, like not insulated. He just showed me that the pipes just had like liquid all over them, and they were running alongside my bed on the wall. And so, he was like, I think one of the things he was saying was like, oh, you know, just sort of putting insulation around and like boxing in these pipes would be a thing that would make a big difference. And that obviously wouldn’t have, that was, I feel like quite localised to one room, so it definitely wasn’t explaining the whole place, but I think those were the kinds of things that were like, I think just like probably anyone with a little bit of care to invest with some money into that, would’ve just done stuff like that, and it probably would’ve helped.. |
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| Me | And do you think since that experience of living in that flat, has it made you more… Is it something that plays on your mind, when you’re looking at other places to move into? Is it something you consider a lot more in flat viewings? |
| Hilda | Yeah, definitely. I think I’d had it in my mind as like, oh, everywhere has a little bit of damp. And so you can’t freak out about there being a little bit of black round the windows and the place, because that’s just like what living in – you know. So I think that had been my previous thing before was like, it wasn’t like a nice thing, and I definitely had lived in places where it was like, yeah, things got a little bit soggy. But this definitely was the first time where I was like – I felt like it really was just like affecting me mentally. And I think I could just see… Yeah, just like, cause you had to constant – it was just so much more work of just like constantly checking that things weren’t like, disintegrating or like being ruined all the time. So it was always like having to look around, and just like move things and change things and not use entire sections of your house. And then was really worried about Willa’s breathing and her health. So I think all of that stuff definitely psychologically was just like horrible and didn’t stop and went on and on. And then when it came again in the next flat that we were in and it was kind of lucky that the only room that wasn’t affected was her bedroom. I think probably part of it is like having a child because it’s just like, yeah, you feel so much more worried about what the implications of it are. Yeah, so then I guess it definitely made me just feel like this – you know, once you start, once you start getting upset by a thing, I feel like you get sensitive to it or something. So I became just really like, nah, I can’t have this anymore. So, yeah. So I do feel really – this is definitely a thing that I’m quite anxious about moving. When you know, we’re starting to look now, it’s just feeling really like, worried about that feels really high risk. |
| Me | And was kind of a plus about this place where you knew the people who’d been living here before? |
| Hilda | Literally. I asked so many people, I was like, it was a damp? And they were like, no, it’s freezing. And I was like, I don’t care about the cold. I mean, to be honest, I have cared a bit about the cold. There are lots of problems with this house, lots of problems and lots of things, you know, the roof leaks, it’s freezing, it has mice, whatever. It’s always filthy, but all these things, as much as they are not great, I would take all of these, even though I’m like dealing with them now, I would take all of those things other than mould. And yeah, and that was like nice to be able to make sure from people about that. I mean, from this end of the room, it’s not, it’s like, it’s just, it doesn’t matter because yeah… |
| Me | And you mentioned your daughter, Willa, was having breathing problems or health problems. Was that something like you took her to doctors about? |
| Hilda | Yeah, so she was – I mean, I, I guess like it, it never became anything sort of big. But it was just like, you know, sort of a bit cough-y. Just kind of had that like, generally seemed like she always had a bit of a cold type thing. And I probably did take her occasionally and it was like, oh, well, you know, she’s a little kid. She goes to nursery. She gets unwell. So it was more like, in my mind, I was just like, I feel like she’s just been ill for long, you know. I didn’t worry about it initially, but after a while it was just like this has just been going on for a long time. And yeah, I mean, I really don’t know if it’s connected, but she has since been diagnosed with
asthma and yeah. And that is definitely one of the things that they asked about, was like, does your house, does she live in a damp, mouldy house? And I was like no, no, not now, but around the time where it was kind of – where I began to be aware of her having, you know, wheezy breathing and stuff we did. And yeah, there’s loads of things, that like… Yeah. You know, we also moved like, you know, the actual diagnosis and her bad asthma attack came when we moved here. And here definitely the pollution from the Old Kent Road is way worse than where we were in Camberwell. And like, you know, that could be another thing. And I was a bit like, oh, maybe if we move somewhere, that’s away from like such a big road, it might be better. As you know, and so I don’t know. It’s hard to know whether it’s a thing, but from my understanding, from what I’ve been told, it doesn’t just come out of nowhere. It’s not likely she moved here, and two weeks later and she got asthma. It’s way more likely it’s a thing that developed through weakening your lungs over a long period of time, which sounds more likely to be connected to that yeah. Or I could have just come anyway. Yeah. And I guess it’s one of those things that like, when it’s in your house, like it’s like part of your everyday life. Like, you might not always say walk down Old Kent Road when it’s at its most busy, or might not walk down it every day. Whereas like you are at home kind of every day, right? |
| Me | Yeah. And I think the things is just like… I mean, it’s just such an obviously like environmentally connected condition. Like there’s not much asthma in my family, but the only family unit that live in Londo – all the rest of my family do not live in London, they live in either towns or more like countryside area – but I think all of the ones that were born and grew up in London have asthma. |
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| Me | I’m sorry to hear that though, I hope she’s doing better now. |
| Hilda | She is now. Yeah, no. Since she’s basically got diagnosed and got her puffers and stuff, it’s actually, yeah, it’s been fine. It just took a long time. I think because she’s young, they’re quite reluctant? There was quite a long period where she wasn’t diagnosed and she wasn’t being medicated and it was really like, ahh. But yeah, no, it’s been pretty great since, since she’s puffing away. |
| Me | I wanted to ask, is there anything like else you wanna bring up or like stuff we haven’t talked about that kind of feels relevant? |
| Hilda | Maybe part of it’s like, cos you know, once you start thinking, you know, experiencing a thing just from also talking to – and maybe this is also part of the things that made me feel worried about it – but talking to like other mums at school who have had like, you know, similar, but like worse experiences, who like have not been able to leave basically. You know, maybe sort of similar, but have not been able to leave the flat and, you know, have had their children live for like years and years in a place where they’ve seen thing of like, you know, that kind of ongoing… A friend of mine’s little girl is a sort of a slightly extreme version of what Willa was like, like she’s just like, you know, even through the summer, she’s just always like, seems borderline unwell. And even if it isn’t caused by it, the like horrible, psychological effect that it has on the mum who thinks that… And it just feels like this really visualised thing. And also, you know, our place only ever had black mould, but her house has got all kinds of crazy colours. And, you know, it’s just… Yeah. These kinds of things that make you feel like your house is like not yours, not like a safe place or something. It’s just like such a horrible, horrible feeling. And. Yeah. And so I guess the other thing of it, maybe, is that kind of feeling of like it’s somehow like your responsibility or… Because I think that just often feels like the kind of first response. Because obviously there are things that you can do to control it. So I’m not saying it’s completely unreasonable for people to be like, you know, how do you live in your house? Like, yeah, these are things that can be done. But I think that that quite often the implication of that stuff is just like, it’s kinda like your fault. Which I think again, like added to those kinds of feelings of like… |
| Me | Yeah. I found something that I thought was quite shocking, from this guy who is an expert damp surveyor, and is called to be an expert witness in cases of damp – like a claim against a landlord or the Council. And he’d uploaded an example report of someone who had complained of a damp problem. And in the report, he’d put a picture of the house on Google Maps – it was like a block of three floors of flats – and he said from the picture, every other flat had their window open apart from this person. So he was like, it’s their fault, they’re not ventilating the house. Which I just thought was really shocking, for that to be ‘expert evidence.’ When like they could be, they could have been on holiday, they could have been at work. |
| Hilda | Yeah, exactly. But also those are the kind of things I definitely feel like I get really sensitive to. It’s like, you know, walking down and being like, oh, like that looks like a really nice building that I’d like to live somewhere like that. Because whatever, like it has nice communal outdoor space and then you’re like, everyone has their windows open. I fucking know this is a horrible, like, this is a horribly damp building. I feel almost like that’s also the thing, like yeah, sure, you can make a damp a bit better by having your windows, but then you’re really cold. It’s in the winter. Like they probably don’t want to have the windows open. I would also feel less inclined to move into somewhere where the only way that you could live is to be really cold. |
| Me | And I feel like it’s like a piece of advice that like is often given, right, that’s just gonna become more difficult with energy prices rising. |
| Hilda | Well, this is the thing. Telling people, right, open your window. Like when we were saying that thing about, you know, about dehumidifiers, it’s like, well back when we were running them, maybe I wasn’t doing very good, like keeping an eye on bills or something, but I wasn’t massively, you know… I really just didn’t want Willa to be ill and I didn’t want all that stuff to go mouldy. And I wasn’t really thinking about, I didn’t really mind if my bills went up. |
| Me | And I guess that’s expensive as well in its own way. Right? Like if you need to replace all your clothes, like toys for your daughter then that’s probably more noticeably expensive, especially a few years ago than like your energy bills. |
| Hilda | Exactly. And also, I guess, you know, we’d chosen to live, you know – we’d managed to find a place that was quite cheap. And so if I had to then subsidise that by spending some more money on bills in order for it to, you know – that was a thing which was fine. But it will be really different if we end up living somewhere now where you have to run a dehumidifier and that is then becoming an extortionate energy cost. That’s like, yeah, that’s a really different thing. |
| Me | And so you’re moving in August, right? |
| Hilda | Between August and October. Depends on when we find somewhere. I think we’ll be moving with Willa, my daughter and my friend Lucy who’s here. So I am quite like excited to live in – my daughter says like ‘a normal flat.’ Somewhere with like a carpet and a radiator, and like a small space, you know? And I’m sure that lots of ways I’ll suddenly be like, I miss it, but I do now have this desire for just like a snug place that I can keep clean. Be warm in, and things like that. |
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